EVE General Discussion

Then why do any players ever run from a fight? Why do people spend all day playing docking games rather than just losing their ships? Why do warp stabs, nullfied ships and cloaks even exist? Why don't people fill ships with plex and fly headlong into war targets scream "YAY CONTENT".

People are all fine with running and hiding until it's their enemy doing it, then suddenly it's bad form.

Yep, pretty much agreed, that's EVE. Why is it suddenly a problem now goons are doing it?

This is such rubbish that is commonly posted in the forum.

Docking up in the face of uncontrollable risk doesn't make you risk averse, whether you are a bee guy or someone else.

It's just simply that people are not openly suicidal with their assets when they face a situation they correctly conclude they can't win. There are the rare 420blazeit types who just go for it anyway, but even they don't do that all the time.

If you are faced with a level of risk you know you can't counter, avoiding that situation doesn't mean you are risk averse. It just means in that one particular encounter you weren't in a position to control it, either to make you stronger or to at least make the odds relatively even.

There are a lot of players who undock when things are even'ish and take a risk. But what's the point undocking to just be hammered. That isn't fun for most people unless there is another motivating factor.

But this stupid call of 'risk aversion' is silly. Goons have shown over and over that they aren't risk averse, so why all of a sudden are they now. They aren't. They have just correctly surmised they can't win certain engagements, so would prefer to save their ships rather than feed fun to the enemy. That seems a perfectly reasonable decision that most would make.

Completely agree.

I both understood and had no intention of spinning. If you are keeping something back then you are not going 100%, and if you are keeping something back there's no reason not to keep more back when you know you will just lose anyway. I might buy 100 ships intent on going out and fighting, and after losing 50 ships realise that nothing I can do will allow me to win. I wouldn't then keep undocking the other 50 knowing full well I'd lose them, would I? I'd hold them back and rebuild until I had a chance.

A peace accord is an agreement with the enemy over a fight. What goons are doing is retreating, which is a valid and widely used tactic.

Well.. they do this very thing at the moment. And all the MBC fanatics are running circles and crying 'why gons dont fight?'

The problem is. Goons where always proudly describing themself as "bad ass guys". When they get to the real test there's nothing. THATS the problem. I also don't understand Lucas defending the goons. He's member of SMA and SMA did the right thing: They got hammered, accepted the defeat and moved out. That's okay. You need balls to accept a defeat. But goon don't accept defeat but also don't want to fight.

This is a game and it's about fun, the meta is second. If you take a look at the beginning the Goons invaded low and got their heads handed by much smaller and mostly disorganized corps. These corps fought for their space even when they where outnumbered. The wave started as other corps realized that Goons can be beaten and after the first fights goons rolled over and played dead. Now they are whining that the odds are bad: So what? What did you do in fights bevor?

The main thing is that goons are either clever just docking and playing meta OR they are bad assed pirates fighting for their turf. But they can't be both things. This tactic is clever but in the long run it can break the goons because it is destroying their nimbus. If they did a last stand they could go with their heads hehlt high but this tactic is the same as by any carebear corp which the goons always detested. Look at Lucas complaining about IWI. 40000 members + renters and Goon can't match 1 guy with a gambling empire? Your real? If you take a closer look at the war chest of your members and not only on the corp chest IWI is a pauper!

BTW: IWI is totally passiv income so you can step up ratting etc but IWI has to wait for the customers to come. They can't do nothing to improve income.

That is true for almost every EveO organisation. Except, maybe, some low-sec pirates or trade hub campers who has nothing else to do. Every organisation has some amount of active players, some alts and lots of carebears. You never see 100% in fleets.

And here you are talking about 0.0-sec alliance. In such organisations you always have lots of renters, bears and other non-active members. Do you remember Legion of xDeathx with its Shadow of xDeathx? Back in 2011-2012 those 2 alliances were like 10 thousand players 'strong'. But in reality we (i was there (c) ) rarely could get full fleet even for important CTAs.
At the same time i had about 12 alts in the corporation.

It's very strange to hear this like it's some kind of news really....


not really. If you were in Eve Online for more than 2 months you can remember lots of wins and losses for many other alliances too. It's just normal for some alliance to grow, become top then fall. Some of those disappear. Others return.

I guess the real 'goon reputation' will be seen couple months after. If GSF just disappear into nothing then yes. If they return - we will see.

Monkeying around MBC propaganda just makes you (not you personally) look like short attention span.

Dear Lucas, please stop crying, your tears are starting to damage my computer!

Okay, does anyone have numbers how much IWI invested? IWI may be really rich but they don't have some ISK printing machine. They have to maintain their normal business so they have limits how much money they can spend on the war.

Yes. Director-level SMA members.



Yes indeed. The behavior of a certain SMA director wrt IWI, and the aftermath of that behavior, was one of the major catalysts for this war.



This is all true and I suspect it's the reason why Lucas here is so single-mindedly obsessed with casinos and IWI in particular, given that at least one of the SMA directors in question and a spouse (who originally came from the same corp as Lucas, coincidentally) were heavily involved with IWI and had had a falling out with him even prior to the more public incident involving the more notorious Winet.