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War and Peace: Loyalty to Strife
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Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2016-04-19 06:56:54 UTC
War has encapsulated the hearts and minds of everyone.
Some decry the sense less violence. Others revel in it's decadence.

What are your feelings on the Great Bee War.
And what of that on the current pseudo wars between the Great Nations?

In victory you must find defeat.
In loss you must find triumph.
In pain find wisdom.
In sadness the hearts desire.

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2016-04-19 07:07:27 UTC
It is a part of the natural order.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-04-19 10:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Galente
Karina Ivanovich wrote:
War has encapsulated the hearts and minds of everyone.
Some decry the sense less violence. Others revel in it's decadence.

What are your feelings on the Great Bee War.
And what of that on the current pseudo wars between the Great Nations?

In victory you must find defeat.
In loss you must find triumph.
In pain find wisdom.
In sadness the hearts desire.



I see I'm not the only Hordeling exploring this topic.

Personally, I am conflicted. I revel in battle and the pitting of two wills against one another, whether it be two fleets, or two friends playing a game of chess. (The two are not dissimilar)

War is as nasty or as civilized and regulated as the leaders of the war mutually decide to make it, and where they cannot agree, it tends towards the savage side. This, however, is total war. There is no agreement, no terms. There is no respect between the combatants. It is a war for the right to exist.

So it will be brutal, long, and arduous. And the most brilliant tacticians and logisticians will win the day, while the most brilliant strategists win the month.

I am conflicted because I love peace and prosperity, and growth. I think the North has stagnated under the Imperium and will flourish when anyone but them is ruling it. I make war because I want a better kind of peace. But that is a contradiction that I am not blind to, so I worry for myself when I catch myself caught up in the war fervor. But there is no room for doubt in an interceptor, it's a bit cramped inside of them as it is.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-04-19 12:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Arista Shahni
"What have you in these houses? And what is it you guard with fastened doors?
Have you peace, the quiet urge that reveals your power?
Have you remembrances, the glimmering arches that span the summits of the mind?
Have you beauty, that leads the heart from things fashioned of wood and stone to the holy mountain?
Tell me, have you these in your houses?
Or have you only comfort, and the lust for comfort, that stealthy thing that enters the house a guest, and then becomes a host and then a master?


Ay, and it becomes a tamer, and with hook and scourge makes puppets of your larger desires.
Though its hands are silken, its heart is of iron.
It lulls you to sleep only to stand by your bed and jeer at the dignity of the flesh.
It makes mock of your sound senses, and lays them in thistledown like fragile vessels.
Verily the lust for comfort murders the passion of the soul, and then walks grinning in the funeral.

But you, children of space, you restless in rest, you shall not be trapped nor tamed.
Your house shall be not an anchor but a mast.
It shall not be a glistening film that covers a wound, but an eyelid that guards the eye.
You shall not fold your wings that you may pass through doors, nor bend your heads that they strike not against a ceiling, nor fear to breathe lest walls should crack and fall down.
You shall not dwell in tombs made by the dead for the living.
And though of magnificence and splendour, your house shall not hold your secret nor shelter your longing.
For that which is boundless in you abides in the mansion of the sky, whose door is the morning mist, and whose windows are the songs and the silences of night."

((totally stolen. Khalil Gibran, The Prophet))

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-04-19 12:30:16 UTC
Karina Ivanovich wrote:
War has encapsulated the hearts and minds of everyone.
Some decry the sense less violence. Others revel in it's decadence.

What are your feelings on the Great Bee War.
And what of that on the current pseudo wars between the Great Nations?

In victory you must find defeat.
In loss you must find triumph.
In pain find wisdom.
In sadness the hearts desire.


The "Great Bee War" is actually a pseudo-war. Bored capsuleers are playing toy soldiers and paint useless null security space in different colors.

The war between Great Nation is the most significant event in our lifetime. It will define future of our whole cluster. Shall the State and Empire win, we will enter the age of prosperity, technological advancement, we will build safe and wealthy society, where lives and property of official and working citizens will be protected by law, where people will get what they were working for, and where crime will be practically eradicated.

But should Federation and Republic win, they will send the cluster into the age of moral and tenchological degradation. Criminal and greedy governments will be working for themselves, peoples will be fighting for power, spilling blood. Criminality will prosper as there won't be hard punishments and because people will finally get freedom, allowing them to do whatever they want, including taking assets of others with their power. People will become grey mass and cattle, flowing as herd to vote for best clowns, degenerating themselves and wasting assets into pleasure, slowly diminishing everything that was constructed and collected before them, finally turning themselves into mere animals.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#6 - 2016-04-19 13:25:40 UTC
Karina Ivanovich wrote:
War has encapsulated the hearts and minds of everyone.
Some decry the sense less violence. Others revel in it's decadence.

What are your feelings on the Great Bee War.
And what of that on the current pseudo wars between the Great Nations?

In victory you must find defeat.
In loss you must find triumph.
In pain find wisdom.
In sadness the hearts desire.


Go MBC! Show them the error of their ways in the Viceroyalty system, in supporting CODE (irrelevant to me seeing as lowsec is my home but I still highly dislike them). Topple their empire for the good of us all. The great nations' psudo wars are merely wargames for when they finally...... to quote the Mittani, drop the hammer on each other. We should prepare, we should maintain a readiness to defend our own, we should fly with those who one day will be by our sides when that day comes. It is important in the long term, though it's rather pointless in the short. Those who die now atleast can take solice in the fact that their kin will learn to defend themselves better when the time comes. It's rather dark to think of it that way I know. But really in the end, what's the bright side to war?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-04-19 13:34:12 UTC
But I agree with Vess.

Their Viceroy system is nothing but a gallentianistic racketeering scheme. They are nothing but a petty criminals. And they must pay for it blood price.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-04-19 14:24:23 UTC
While I don't agree that WWB is quite as pseudo a war as you think Ms. Kim, I do believe that in the long term the war between nations will prove to be the greater struggle. However, that being said, The Mittani and his ilk must be eliminated. This is a war for survival.

Some say that it is enough to live.
Some say that it is enough to survive.
Survival is the goal, but it lacks substance.
To live you must live for something.
Seek ever the barren pasture.
Forget not from whence you came.

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-04-19 16:35:56 UTC
"World War Bee" - as some jokester has dubbed it - is a natural and indeed inevitable consequence of a tyrannical regime's reach extending its grasp. The CFC failed to learn from Band of Brothers' mistakes, and ended up becoming far worse than their old adversaries ever were, stifling interstellar trade and progress. While it remains to be seen if Moneybadger Coalition can cause a complete colony collapse, this war has already spelt the end of the era of unchecked CFC supremacy in nullsec. Given that MBC is, by its own admission, an ad hoc entity assembled with the sole intent of breaking the CFC, it certainly won't be a replacement of the sort CFC was to BOB. If MBC succeeds in its mission, its members will almost certainly start fighting one another once their common cause is gone.

Should CFC fall, there'll be a significant power vacuum, and new opportunities in the outer regions will emerge. Systems, constellations and regions will change hands. Capsuleers will change allegiances, form new alliances and coalitions, and new wars will be fough. Low- and hi-sec industrialists will have to make deals with new raw materials suppliers, who in turn will want ships, weapons and ammunition. I've wanted to see the CFC collapse for years, but now I feel like it's not only something I want, but something that's good for the cluster in general.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-04-19 17:17:06 UTC
It is funny how some dull-witted gallenteans use words like "tyrannical" for anything they don't like without really understanding the meaning of the word. It makes their speeches comical.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#11 - 2016-04-19 17:26:59 UTC
Have the bee guys not acted tyrannically though? Invading Provi & Cloud Ring, controlling prices on moon materials, the events involving TEST? Nevermind their more recent transgressions, maybe your point stands, but it does seem like a valid name for it honestly.
Jason Galente
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-04-19 17:35:31 UTC
Diana's Law: Any discussion of anything can eventually be boiled down to "Gallente bad" within 1 page of replies.

Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole. And this foundation must be defended.

At any cost
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-04-19 17:37:19 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Have the bee guys not acted tyrannically though? Invading Provi & Cloud Ring, controlling prices on moon materials, the events involving TEST? Nevermind their more recent transgressions, maybe your point stands, but it does seem like a valid name for it honestly.

That can be done by democratic goverenment consisting of several heads as well.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#14 - 2016-04-19 17:43:30 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Have the bee guys not acted tyrannically though? Invading Provi & Cloud Ring, controlling prices on moon materials, the events involving TEST? Nevermind their more recent transgressions, maybe your point stands, but it does seem like a valid name for it honestly.

That can be done by democratic goverenment consisting of several heads as well.

Not arguing that at all, it's true they can be. I would definitely say the bee guys are tyrannical though. They have a history of making demands and forcing their will upon others.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-04-19 21:37:50 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Have the bee guys not acted tyrannically though? Invading Provi & Cloud Ring, controlling prices on moon materials, the events involving TEST? Nevermind their more recent transgressions, maybe your point stands, but it does seem like a valid name for it honestly.

That can be done by democratic goverenment consisting of several heads as well.

Not arguing that at all, it's true they can be. I would definitely say the bee guys are tyrannical though. They have a history of making demands and forcing their will upon others.

And again lawful and collegial government can make demands and force their will upon others.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#16 - 2016-04-19 21:51:17 UTC
I guess to an extent I agree with you on that, but are the bee guys really, as you put it "a lawful and collegial government?" Maybe it's only my personal opinion but they are pretty far from it honestly. They have their own systems of ruling themselves and such, but diplomacy with their neighbors goes hand in hand with simply ruling over themselves. Part of the reason this war exists is their failures to "play nice" with others....
Fay Morrikahn
Encyclopedia Amarria
#17 - 2016-04-19 23:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Fay Morrikahn
Karina Ivanovich wrote:
War has encapsulated the hearts and minds of everyone.
Some decry the sense less violence. Others revel in it's decadence.
What are your feelings on the Great Bee War.

The Imperium is solely responsible for creating the situation it faces. The fall of a regime so invested in the sowing of chaos, heresy, and malignancy will always be celebrated by those who seek a better New Eden.

Quote:
And what of that on the current pseudo wars between the Great Nations?

The Militia Wars are a testament to CONCORD's dereliction of its duties, abandoning any pretense of the organization existing to uphold law across the cluster and provide a means of recourse and conflict resolution. Instituting capsuleer proxy wars instead of working to deescalate Caldari-Gallente sovereignty tensions or punishing the Matari for their transgressions against the Empire and CONCORD itself is, frankly, insulting.

Lady Fay Morrikahn,

Morrikahn Family heiress,

Imperial Scholar, Royal Amarr Institute
Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2016-04-20 00:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Karina Ivanovich
Deitra Vess wrote:
I guess to an extent I agree with you on that, but are the bee guys really, as you put it "a lawful and collegial government?" Maybe it's only my personal opinion but they are pretty far from it honestly. They have their own systems of ruling themselves and such, but diplomacy with their neighbors goes hand in hand with simply ruling over themselves. Part of the reason this war exists is their failures to "play nice" with others....


On this you and I are totally and unequivocally in agreement. The Clusterf@ck coalition. (they do not deserve to be called by the propaganda leaden name they call themselves now) is a Federation of Tyranical leaders lead by one of the worst oligarchs in recent history. Any group sympathizing with the current incarnation of CFC does not realize the true extent of what has been going on behind the scenes.

Throw out the propaganda.
Listen not to the lies.
Cease following those with hollow eyes.

The word of the shepherd is golden.
But inside the flock lurks a wolf.
And others don sheep's gilded clothing.
Still others stalk meat for their pies.

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-04-20 00:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Karina Ivanovich wrote:
The Clusterf@ck coalition. (they do not deserve to be called by the propaganda leaden name they call themselves now)

I disagree. They earned the name "CFC" by building an empire in nullsec. One that at its height owned more star systems than the Amarr. An Empire that could put a thousand battleships on field. They had secure space in the north, more secure than lowsec and likely parts of highsec.

The Imperium does not have these things and cannot do them. They failed to sell their version of history and they failed to protect their allies. The Imperium lost its space, it became a hollow joke. The CFC could act while the Imperium can only promise it will.

They earned their new name and deserve it. You should use it.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2016-04-20 02:05:08 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Karina Ivanovich wrote:
The Clusterf@ck coalition. (they do not deserve to be called by the propaganda leaden name they call themselves now)

I disagree. They earned the name "CFC" by building an empire in nullsec. One that at its height owned more star systems than the Amarr. An Empire that could put a thousand battleships on field. They had secure space in the north, more secure than lowsec and likely parts of highsec.

The Imperium does not have these things and cannot do them. They failed to sell their version of history and they failed to protect their allies. The Imperium lost its space, it became a hollow joke. The CFC could act while the Imperium can only promise it will.

They earned their new name and deserve it. You should use it.

Damn. Right between the eyes.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
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