These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

So Tier 2 & 3 Destroyers any one?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#21 - 2012-01-13 10:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
Trinkets friend wrote:
Decloaking modules = crustch for people like the OP who cannot keep Local chat open long enough to keep themselves safe.

A module which you could pulse, even like an ECCM, to decloak enemies would not save you in a wormhole, nor k-space. An area-of-effect decloaking object, like a probe for an Interdictor, would be OK I guess, but again, no excuse for Local or d-scan.

I would support more varieties of probes for Interdictors, such as web field, TD field, SD field, ECM field probes. But that doesn't address more variety for the T1 destroyer hulls.

Command bonused destroyers I would not support. It would be a cheaper, easier way to create AFK boosting alts, which are already a big enough bone of contention and crutch anyway. No need to make this easier to skill for and afford.

EW Destroyers could, at least, replace EW frigates. Extra tank, slots, spank afforded by a destroyer hull could revitalise 'light ECM'. These could be tech 1 ships with a light bonus, followed by a tech 2 variant with tech 2 bonuses. eg;

That sort of thing, to me, would be more sensible than covops cloaky dessies. i mean, what is their role in BLOPs fleets that the force recons can't provide, or gank that SB's or BLOPs can't provide? Nothing I can see.



The point of the module was more to drive them off with a visible effect that your looking for them, rather than to make up for sucking. That was the point of the 15 sec charge time that is very visible in space, like one an ocianic dessy uses depth charges to drive off subs. I always have local up personally and have no beef with cloak ships, its just odd to me that they have no counter/interaction in the game they just are.

Like they don't just rush T1 BC as is till they get there T3 to do it Roll

The Ewar thing sounds ok but dessy hulls are weaker than friggs just because of their size, so I think you would just end up with a sentinel that can't kite, a kitsune that cant aline out fast enuf ect ect.

There role in BLOPs fleets is up there, gang support, rally point logistics, as in it sits some were uncloaked to bonus you and repps the force recons that take damage one they warp out. Seemed clear enuff. There is no force recon that gets rep bonuses that I see, and T3 can't come and play so...


P.S. I also think that T3 should never get to cov op portal, they are not specialist like T2 they are mix-n-match jack'o all trades they should stay that way and not just start replacing the need/use of T2 ships.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#22 - 2012-01-13 10:33:58 UTC
This entire post is ridiculous. Please, just no. Rebalance what we already have, and then we can determine what, if any, new roles need to be created.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#23 - 2012-01-13 10:38:26 UTC
Ok, so lets say you have a module which works like an ECM burst to decloak. IIf it has range >24kms it would essentially make your gang invulnerable to anything except an Arazu or Proteus with the friction extensor sub - if you just ran it as a deterrent, as you say. But why do that? You want to grab that viator on your gate, you see where he is roughly when he decloaks, you have your MWD running hot and doubleclick on him then spam the decloaker. Yeah, you "deterred" him out of cloak at 24km range (most gates) and your instalock T3 locks him up. Game over.

Sorry, crap idea.

Secondly, you obviously missed the bit where they fiddled down the destroyer sig radium somewhat in Crucible. Secondly the point of EW is to not be uber-tanky and to rely on EWAR to provide your tank (or make up for it). So what if your destroyers are a bit weaker? You will have a Kitsune in a destroyer hull....which will be tougher than a Kitsune but not have the range of the BB nor its tank. I cant see how putting it in the middle will be a failwhale of a concept.

You clearly have no idea how BLOPs fleets work. If you get into a fleet where you don't woefully outnumber the enemy, you are doing it wrong. If you need to win via RR and attrition, you are doing it wrong. Sure it might not be e-peen spaceknight Mc Honorbags tactics, but if you do it right your gang does its job then GTFO's.

You are also forgetting that SB's, which by neccessity make up the bulk of BLOPs gangs, hve to stay very mobile to survive. If they have to stay within 20, 30, 50km of a logistic destroyer that will be more fatal to them than not having a logistic destroyer. Plus, the logi dessy will just get clobbered anyway.

I honestly don't know how you think BLOPs gangs work that they need a command ship or substitute to be effective. None of the CS bonuses give damage buffs, which is what you need, to gank the foe before you do a quickfade and escape.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#24 - 2012-01-13 11:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
The module I propose lets YOU and only you SEE the cloaked things after 15 seconds of charge (give or take balance need wise)not on D scan not with probes, just seeing them on grid, and now that I think about it you wouldn't even need the ability to lock them peeking would be useful enuff. Its not for ganking haulers its for chasing eyes of the gate so you can get your teams stuff in, or to check if one of the 4-300 people in local is a cloaked recon sitting right there before you engage an enemy.


True they did bring down there sig, but we have Ewar friggs they should fix those. Wouldn't an Ewar dessy just obsolete them like T2 Ewar BC's would to the non-cloaky recons? The biggest thing about dessy's is there 8 highs witch only the ammar one gets to use for Ewar.(not that I wouldn't want a sentinal with 8 bounsed neutsTwisted)


I stated off grid at a rally point with 1 gank link only not on field , ya know the place SB and the like go one they run. I don't think they need it, it would just be a great tool for the shed if you will. You could may be even give the ship a larger cargo bay to carry extra bombs and jump fuel with. What not bomb lobbing SB blob wouldn't like a little extra sensor strength or speed? Half the reason they 80% only get used for SB's is because they have no support, its directly related to there being almost no other option not because its the best use of the BLOP.

I not trying to be a **** here but your argument against is base off some things I didn't propose. I don't want my Falcon insta decloaked any more than you, nore an ezer way to print out afk boost alts, or a crappy on field logi ship for SB & recons during a fight.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-01-13 12:06:57 UTC
I too would like to see new destroyers, a drone + blaster dessie for gallente, rockets for amarr, light missiles for caldari and mixed projectiles and unbonused missiles for minmatar because **** you that's why.

But please, no more tiers!!!!
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#26 - 2012-01-13 12:29:34 UTC
Mechael wrote:
This entire post is ridiculous. Please, just no. Rebalance what we already have, and then we can determine what, if any, new roles need to be created.



Max Von Sydow wrote:
I too would like to see new destroyers, a drone + blaster dessie for gallente, rockets for amarr, light missiles for caldari and mixed projectiles and unbonused missiles for minmatar because **** you that's why.
But please, no more tiers!!!!




I honestly like the tier system gives new players things to work for, feel good about waiting not grinding to level, and I also have no problem with most hulls not beening used. Whens the last time you saw a model T on the road? Or went and got bled one you were sick? Ever seen cops/soldiers spears and bows? Would human run companies of the future not just keep making better and better stuff? Even though the lower tier stuff is as a whole weaker I personally use some of them just because, hell I fly caracal's and vexor's over moa's and thorax's and a lot of other people do as well. some times its fun for use to have to adabt and change instead of always trying to get the game to adapt "balance" to us.


I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-01-13 14:53:26 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Would human run companies of the future not just keep making better and better stuff?


Of course they would, but I also believe they would continue developing their older models to keep them up to date. Kinda like modern navies upgrading the same ships over and over again making them pretty much as good as a new one. the US navy have been using the Nimitz class carriers since the 70s but I really doubt they haven't improved the design of the newer ships or retrofitted the old ones during the last 35 years.

Also, the vexor and the thorax are most likely developed by two different ingame corps, I'm guessing Creodron for the vexor and Duvolle for the thorax, and imo the fact that the thorax is slightly better than the vexor should i encourage Creodron to improve the standard T1 vexor design to compete with the duvolle thorax. If not for the capsuleer market they should be competing for federation navy contracts.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#28 - 2012-01-13 15:05:33 UTC
Max Von Sydow wrote:
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Would human run companies of the future not just keep making better and better stuff?


Of course they would, but I also believe they would continue developing their older models to keep them up to date. Kinda like modern navies upgrading the same ships over and over again making them pretty much as good as a new one. the US navy have been using the Nimitz class carriers since the 70s but I really doubt they haven't improved the design of the newer ships or retrofitted the old ones during the last 35 years.

Also, the vexor and the thorax are most likely developed by two different ingame corps, I'm guessing Creodron for the vexor and Duvolle for the thorax, and imo the fact that the thorax is slightly better than the vexor should i encourage Creodron to improve the standard T1 vexor design to compete with the duvolle thorax. If not for the capsuleer market they should be competing for federation navy contracts.



Very true, I just assume that the Tier/skill level minimum was sole a hardware limitation, but competition between groups to one up each other I suppose could lead to a Plateau with in the classes.


I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#29 - 2012-01-14 18:28:35 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:

I honestly like the tier system gives new players things to work for, feel good about waiting not grinding to level, and I also have no problem with most hulls not beening used. Whens the last time you saw a model T on the road? Or went and got bled one you were sick? Ever seen cops/soldiers spears and bows? Would human run companies of the future not just keep making better and better stuff? Even though the lower tier stuff is as a whole weaker I personally use some of them just because, hell I fly caracal's and vexor's over moa's and thorax's and a lot of other people do as well. some times its fun for use to have to adabt and change instead of always trying to get the game to adapt "balance" to us.


Do you see a lot of model T's on sale at car lots where you are? Do they carry leeches in your local pharmacy? If these hulls are so out-dated, get them off the market and make them novelty items for rich collectors.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#30 - 2012-01-14 18:31:52 UTC
At the risk of de-railing the thread, I would like to say that it would be great if ships could be updated yearly or so, much like car models are. The 2012 Vexor could be a little different from the model of Vexor they were making last year. It'd be a great approach to game balance, I think. Just give all of the ships a model number.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
river Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-01-21 01:07:19 UTC
Mechael wrote:
At the risk of de-railing the thread, I would like to say that it would be great if ships could be updated yearly or so, much like car models are. The 2012 Vexor could be a little different from the model of Vexor they were making last year. It'd be a great approach to game balance, I think. Just give all of the ships a model number.


Selling 2005 Harbinger 4b!
Previous page12