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Walking in Citadels
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pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#81 - 2016-04-17 08:15:21 UTC
MidnightWyvern wrote:
pushdogg wrote:
The game is a spaceship game, all of you will get WiS and then complain that that isn't enough.

Can we please lay this walking in stations thing to rest?

GD makes me want to go read Reddit ffs.

Well I've personally never seen people try and demand anything further than what was presented in 2009, but whatever.

Far more fun to just act elitist because you find a feature to be beneath you.


A feature that belongs in a game where you walk around. If that came off elitist, its because it was.
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#82 - 2016-04-17 13:53:56 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Captain IQ wrote:
After bullying through Skill Injectors who could possibly complain that WiCs would be a bad idea?

The very same people who complained when WiS was being worked on ....... both the original attempt (WiS) and the second effort (Exploration Sites).

I think WiS could be much more than just emote / dance / walk around / look at pretty graphics. It could be set up more like a RTS exploration / FPS dungeon crawler with 3rd person camera view options available. You'd have a Fog Of War aspect until after you explored the interior or remembered to buy that map from the shady NPC character hanging round the Elevator to the Captains Quarters.

Years ago CCP asked in a couple of threads for suggestions / ideas for WiS gameplay content, a lot of stuff was suggested and ideas were expanded upon. I'm talking about everything from new skills and implants to station interior deck layouts. Even talk of creating an endless maze in the lowest level of the stations. There's plenty of WiS threads available with the info.

Unfortunately, it's all a pipe dream. CCP even promised to showcase a working model during the second effort (Exploration Sites) that would be better than the Ambulation Demo. All we got was a CGI trailer showing Avatars exploring an alien outpost.

Guess what I'm saying is don't hold your breath. CCP has a bad habit of making lot's of promises which usually end up being abandoned.



DMC

See, what I think would be neat is if WiS social spaces were the bridge between the New Eden games.

Obviously Valkyrie is a standalone, but even if EVE Online and Dust 2.0/NotLegion have no gameplay link until they figure out a balanced way to add it in, they could have shared social space that let players of both games interact directly. That would go a long way toward reinforcing that the games really are part of the same universe, which was an issue we've had with virtually all new adopters of Dust 514.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#83 - 2016-04-17 13:54:14 UTC
It's a stupid idea. Anyway. No citadel will be up long enough for it to make a difference.
Why spend all that time developing something that'll never be used?

LOL. You future citadel owners are sure optimistic.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#84 - 2016-04-17 15:50:04 UTC
My Golem hasn't grown legs, how would it be able to walk in a space station?

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Mortania
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2016-04-17 18:31:25 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

I want WiS. Now give me a single reason why I should not say it openly when I lose nothing for saying it and can't gain nothing by not saying it.

Silence is consent. And I don't consent that CCP doesn't adds avatar gameplay to EVE.


You only think you do, you might be wrong, don't believe everything you think. How much time do you spend in CQ right now?

Also, the team/office that mostly made WiS is gone, they let em all go and White Wolf is dead. CCP Atlanta essentially doesn't exist any more.

They likely spent on the order of 3 million buck to get us CQ, maybe more, maybe a LOT more.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#86 - 2016-04-17 18:44:12 UTC
3 milion? You got that from my older post? From walking is Stations thread? That figure was an aproximation for expansion of CQ, modularity and such. Hmm... Isnt really so big when you think about it.

I spend there all the time I am docked. Its because its more fun to have actual legs and walk on them to see the familiar face in the mirror. It is almost like you would not be a spaceship anymore. Shocked

Having humane needs, what devil would even think about that?

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Mortania
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2016-04-18 00:23:31 UTC
Nah, I figure using standard MMR of 10k that they easily spent 300 man months working on it. They had a LOT of artists working on it. The Atlanta studio was close to 100 people at one point, and while they were working on many other things, there was a large portion of them working on what was the base of WiS. 100 people burn through $1MM in a month. $3MM was me trying to find the right balance.

If you want to be by the books, you have to account all of the time Atlanta was open against something, if WiS is the only thing salvageable that came out of that, then the figure for the cost of WiS more like $10-20MM.

I think I've walked 3 times. Once when they first launched and it defaulted to it. Once a few years later because a friend said that they had done some cool stuff with it, and once last week because I hit the wrong button somehow. I literally don't know how to do it on purpose.
Sentry 10
Escape Velocity
#88 - 2016-04-18 09:07:14 UTC
I think WiS should be an important addition to this game.

A lot of times MMO players log onto their favorite MMO just to chill and be immersed in the game world. Yes, Eve is a game about spaceships, but that's talking about gameplay. Sometimes people log on not necessarily to go out and grind or pvp for several hours, but simply to just be in the world they love after a long day of work, school, or whatever. They log on just to unwind and relax and look at pretty moving pictures of their characters.

Think of the other classic MMOs you've played, and how many people you see just chilling in towns chatting, marketing, or just plain doing nothing. WiS is to give it that "town" feel with other people doing the same.

And before you say "we need to not give people more reasons to not undock", no, just no. If a person's intent is to simply chill in station, they're not going to undock anyway, be it WiS or a boring ship spin interior.

In short WiS is to breathe more life to a game world that people love to be in. Yes I do unwind in my CQ and sit down on the couch. Yes I would love to be able to have WiS as a glorified chat room. I'm sure others have the same sentiment.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2016-04-18 10:42:02 UTC
LOL this thread...

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#90 - 2016-04-18 13:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Mortania wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

I want WiS. Now give me a single reason why I should not say it openly when I lose nothing for saying it and can't gain nothing by not saying it.

Silence is consent. And I don't consent that CCP doesn't adds avatar gameplay to EVE.


You only think you do, you might be wrong, don't believe everything you think. How much time do you spend in CQ right now?

Also, the team/office that mostly made WiS is gone, they let em all go and White Wolf is dead. CCP Atlanta essentially doesn't exist any more.

They likely spent on the order of 3 million buck to get us CQ, maybe more, maybe a LOT more.


See, the battle for WiS will not be done until either CCP or EVE are gone. And when that happens, the failure to implement WiS will be one of the causes of their eventual demise. We are, and have been for nearly 5 years, in the "or else" side of a deal that was "WiS or else".

EVE in 2016 is literally a game that is not the EVE CCP wanted to develop in 2003. CCP is doing their best with what was left after Incarnageddon, but this is not how it should have gone. It's plan B time, with a idea that was not in the original inception. And good luck with it...

Of course CCP can't reverse the facts. Their plan to implement avatar content is gone forever. But as I said, I lose nothing to say I want it, and gain nothing to not say it.

You know? Maybe tomorrow someone buys out CCP and devotes 100 devs and 20 million $ to implement WiS in EVE so this old whore looks as if she never had had that ltitle affair with krokodil five years ago...
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#91 - 2016-04-18 14:08:30 UTC
There is no reasoning with the unreasonable. You can tell a WiS fanatic that EVE is fine without it, and that EVE with WiS might not be all that they hope it would be (because WiS is a 'game-life immersion' type feature and many EVE players tend to be non-immersion hobbyist types who don't actively RP, so WiS does nothing for those EVE players other than make them click a button in the ESC menu to get rid of it, just like the current captains quarters).

You can show them examples of "WiS-like" failures (like playstation home, which was meant to serve the same social function as WiS in EVE would have,and which went largely unused by the wider PS gaming community until the finally decided to kill it). You can show them other space games with walking around where it doesn't really do anything for the game experience other than distract from the actual spaceships (Star Trek Online comes to mind).

None of that matters to the fanatic. CCP restarting WiS and WiS being the thing that eventually made EVE fail (because CCP has historically proven it's not very good at splitting it's attention.. See DUST and WoD ) wouldn't even be enough, in their madness they;'d just say "CCP didn't make WiS early enough!!!!".

So let them have their nonsense dream since there is nothing to be done about it, while more pragmatic folks enjoy what EVE is now rather than hanging on to the idea that "one day it will be great"...
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#92 - 2016-04-18 14:19:43 UTC
Using playstation home as an example is bad as being in playstation home is a completely separate experience to all of the games people play on their playstation, while WiS would be enjoyed within the same game while doing some shared activities in both sides of it.

And you say EVE players aren't immersed, but that's because immersive features are missing so it's very difficult to be immersed in EVE. That naturally leads to the existing players not being immersed, but certainly doesn't mean EVE is better by maintaining that status quo. There could be a whole load of players who really would enjoy EVE if it were more immersive.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#93 - 2016-04-18 15:53:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
There is no reasoning with the unreasonable. You can tell a WiS fanatic that EVE is fine without it, and that EVE with WiS might not be all that they hope it would be (because WiS is a 'game-life immersion' type feature and many EVE players tend to be non-immersion hobbyist types who don't actively RP, so WiS does nothing for those EVE players other than make them click a button in the ESC menu to get rid of it, just like the current captains quarters).

You can show them examples of "WiS-like" failures (like playstation home, which was meant to serve the same social function as WiS in EVE would have,and which went largely unused by the wider PS gaming community until the finally decided to kill it). You can show them other space games with walking around where it doesn't really do anything for the game experience other than distract from the actual spaceships (Star Trek Online comes to mind).

None of that matters to the fanatic. CCP restarting WiS and WiS being the thing that eventually made EVE fail (because CCP has historically proven it's not very good at splitting it's attention.. See DUST and WoD ) wouldn't even be enough, in their madness they;'d just say "CCP didn't make WiS early enough!!!!".

So let them have their nonsense dream since there is nothing to be done about it, while more pragmatic folks enjoy what EVE is now rather than hanging on to the idea that "one day it will be great"...


This post is so edgy it gave me a chubby.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#94 - 2016-04-18 18:08:39 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
If CCP are smart - the new Dust/Legion game will be all about fighting in Citadels and be a way of extending vulnerability/capturing/stealing them. (Using your existing Eve toons)


But I seriously doubt CCP have the foresight to kill two birds with one stone by doing something that epic.



Sometimes I wonder if CCP reads some of the great ideas here on the Forums (to be fair, there are some bad ones too) and then decides that since they're not up to the task they'd rather troll us with fail cameras and the like. I don't want to believe it's true but most other explanations have been ruled out at this point.

The incoming capital changes should be great, for capital pilots...

Citadels have so much potential...

... and yet, something as simple as a camera that worked just fine... NOPE.

Thank me later :D
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#95 - 2016-04-18 18:28:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
There is no reasoning with the unreasonable. You can tell a WiS fanatic that EVE is fine without it, and that EVE with WiS might not be all that they hope it would be (because WiS is a 'game-life immersion' type feature and many EVE players tend to be non-immersion hobbyist types who don't actively RP, so WiS does nothing for those EVE players other than make them click a button in the ESC menu to get rid of it, just like the current captains quarters).

You can show them examples of "WiS-like" failures (like playstation home, which was meant to serve the same social function as WiS in EVE would have,and which went largely unused by the wider PS gaming community until the finally decided to kill it). You can show them other space games with walking around where it doesn't really do anything for the game experience other than distract from the actual spaceships (Star Trek Online comes to mind).

None of that matters to the fanatic. CCP restarting WiS and WiS being the thing that eventually made EVE fail (because CCP has historically proven it's not very good at splitting it's attention.. See DUST and WoD ) wouldn't even be enough, in their madness they;'d just say "CCP didn't make WiS early enough!!!!".

So let them have their nonsense dream since there is nothing to be done about it, while more pragmatic folks enjoy what EVE is now rather than hanging on to the idea that "one day it will be great"...



You make excellent points. I will only add that CCP creates these expectations and then fails to deliver. It may be time to let it go ... but can you blame players for wanting a more immersive virtual experience? Valkyrie delivers that in a different format - maybe that's enough.

Thank me later :D
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#96 - 2016-04-18 21:48:00 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
And when that happens, the failure to implement WiS will be one of the causes of their eventual demise. We are, and have been for nearly 5 years, in the "or else" side of a deal that was "WiS or else".

EVE in 2016 is literally a game that is not the EVE CCP wanted to develop in 2003. CCP is doing their best with what was left after Incarnageddon, but this is not how it should have gone. It's plan B time, with a idea that was not in the original inception. And good luck with it...


The only demise of eve is pandering to the lowest common denominator that will get distracted by the next shiny and be on their way. Then CCP will pick up the pieces, wonder went all went wrong when anyone with plain sight will look at CCP directly.

Oh I want WIS but CCP should really get its act together and work out how to do it properly. Of course them making a bunch of spin-offs in the hope for more dollars in lieu of their main product doesn't help but try telling them that. Bring back Unifex that's what I say.
Ka Plaa
Doomheim
#97 - 2016-04-19 02:21:54 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:

Just imagine if Dust had been connected to Eve in any meaningful way. That would kind of suck right now, wouldn't it?

No, it wouldn't suck...because if DUST had been properly put out on PC and properly connected to EvE it wouldn't be dying a deserved console death but rather it would be prospering and EvE would have benefitted..

"The Crowd Is Untruth" - Kierkegaard
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#98 - 2016-04-19 12:48:25 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Captain IQ wrote:
After bullying through Skill Injectors who could possibly complain that WiCs would be a bad idea?

The very same people who complained when WiS was being worked on ....... both the original attempt (WiS) and the second effort (Exploration Sites).

I think WiS could be much more than just emote / dance / walk around / look at pretty graphics. It could be set up more like a RTS exploration / FPS dungeon crawler with 3rd person camera view options available. You'd have a Fog Of War aspect until after you explored the interior or remembered to buy that map from the shady NPC character hanging round the Elevator to the Captains Quarters.

Years ago CCP asked in a couple of threads for suggestions / ideas for WiS gameplay content, a lot of stuff was suggested and ideas were expanded upon. I'm talking about everything from new skills and implants to station interior deck layouts. Even talk of creating an endless maze in the lowest level of the stations. There's plenty of WiS threads available with the info.

Unfortunately, it's all a pipe dream. CCP even promised to showcase a working model during the second effort (Exploration Sites) that would be better than the Ambulation Demo. All we got was a CGI trailer showing Avatars exploring an alien outpost.

Guess what I'm saying is don't hold your breath. CCP has a bad habit of making lot's of promises which usually end up being abandoned.



DMC


And players have an equally bad habit of taking concept videos as promises

And of stubbornly refusing to accept reality.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#99 - 2016-04-19 12:49:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
There is no reasoning with the unreasonable. You can tell a WiS fanatic that EVE is fine without it, and that EVE with WiS might not be all that they hope it would be (because WiS is a 'game-life immersion' type feature and many EVE players tend to be non-immersion hobbyist types who don't actively RP, so WiS does nothing for those EVE players other than make them click a button in the ESC menu to get rid of it, just like the current captains quarters).

You can show them examples of "WiS-like" failures (like playstation home, which was meant to serve the same social function as WiS in EVE would have,and which went largely unused by the wider PS gaming community until the finally decided to kill it). You can show them other space games with walking around where it doesn't really do anything for the game experience other than distract from the actual spaceships (Star Trek Online comes to mind).

None of that matters to the fanatic. CCP restarting WiS and WiS being the thing that eventually made EVE fail (because CCP has historically proven it's not very good at splitting it's attention.. See DUST and WoD ) wouldn't even be enough, in their madness they;'d just say "CCP didn't make WiS early enough!!!!".

So let them have their nonsense dream since there is nothing to be done about it, while more pragmatic folks enjoy what EVE is now rather than hanging on to the idea that "one day it will be great"...




"WIS cannot fail. It can only BE failed."

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Zet Soirn
Soirn Enterprises
#100 - 2016-04-19 15:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zet Soirn
Sentry 10 wrote:
I think WiS should be an important addition to this game.

A lot of times MMO players log onto their favorite MMO just to chill and be immersed in the game world. Yes, Eve is a game about spaceships, but that's talking about gameplay. Sometimes people log on not necessarily to go out and grind or pvp for several hours, but simply to just be in the world they love after a long day of work, school, or whatever. They log on just to unwind and relax and look at pretty moving pictures of their characters.

Think of the other classic MMOs you've played, and how many people you see just chilling in towns chatting, marketing, or just plain doing nothing. WiS is to give it that "town" feel with other people doing the same.

And before you say "we need to not give people more reasons to not undock", no, just no. If a person's intent is to simply chill in station, they're not going to undock anyway, be it WiS or a boring ship spin interior.

In short WiS is to breathe more life to a game world that people love to be in. Yes I do unwind in my CQ and sit down on the couch. Yes I would love to be able to have WiS as a glorified chat room. I'm sure others have the same sentiment.



100% agreed. God, I would love to see WiS being revisited by CCP. The potential. It could also attract more new players.
Would be a great step for CCP towards creating more vibrant and immersing experience.
It would only increase the feeling of big and complex universe.
Imagine bars, player run shops, dark alleys with booster dealers, actual agents you could talk to face to face, station missions.
Maybe adding a close combat later. Now, that would bring even more players, more new items, more new industries.
I believe then, the EvE would be truly one of a kind (it already is) and would propably solidify its place on the market for many more years to come.
Yea, there still need to be Devs to work on the space mechanics and bringing new things.
Doesn´t mean they can´t divert some people to work on WiS.
God, I NEED DIS! I NEEED DIS!

tldr: I agree that in EvE, CCP needs to focus more on the Space aspect, but I also believe they could revisit WiS a lil bit.