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[Citadels] Capital Q&A

First post
Author
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#301 - 2016-04-14 19:38:21 UTC
I think instead of concentrating on Titans that a role between the Titan and Super Carrier should be developed. The new role would be the Flagship. The Flagship would provide better bonuses through the Command Ship where a single Flagship would be able to provide bonus support for five Command Ships in a fleet.

The Flagship would be slightly smaller than a Dread allowing it to have access to High Sector. A Flagship would have a Drone Bay capable of handling five Gecko Drones or two Carrier Fighters plus five high slots, five mid slots and five low slots for additional fleet boosting capabilities such as a capacitor and shield transfer to armor, shield and hull repping bonuses.
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#302 - 2016-04-15 05:32:01 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
I think instead of concentrating on Titans that a role between the Titan and Super Carrier should be developed. The new role would be the Flagship. The Flagship would provide better bonuses through the Command Ship where a single Flagship would be able to provide bonus support for five Command Ships in a fleet.

The Flagship would be slightly smaller than a Dread allowing it to have access to High Sector. A Flagship would have a Drone Bay capable of handling five Gecko Drones or two Carrier Fighters plus five high slots, five mid slots and five low slots for additional fleet boosting capabilities such as a capacitor and shield transfer to armor, shield and hull repping bonuses.


In other words, the flagship would become the all-rounder of the Capital ship classes - able to fly fighters or drones like a carrier, equipped with guns like a Dreadnought and Titan, able to field various electronic warfare or other modules, and utilize the warfare links mechanics.

While the idea has merit, the Titans have already cornered the market on warfare link modules in Capital ships, since they essentially are Super-Capital sized Command ships with monstrous firepower and a superweapon to boot.

Marox Calendale
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#303 - 2016-04-15 10:42:44 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
***** Miscellaneous *****
Q) What's happening to the Rorqual? (#1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
A) We have plans for the Rorqual, but we're still looking into their technical feasibility. We will release details about the Rorqual soon.

It´s always interesting to think about CCP´s definition of "soon"...

With all these changes to Carriers, Fax, Supers and Titans is there anything you can tell us about the roqual? Or just tell us if it staying like it is with the citadel release.
Ferrus Kanus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#304 - 2016-04-18 01:42:52 UTC
It was mentioned on the last 07 show that there will be rat capitals up to Titans spawning in anomalies and belts as apart of pve for this expansion, is this still true or has it been delayed , if I remember correctly it's meant to be the main source of capital faction mods
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#305 - 2016-04-20 16:52:28 UTC
Ferrus Kanus wrote:
It was mentioned on the last 07 show that there will be rat capitals up to Titans spawning in anomalies and belts as apart of pve for this expansion, is this still true or has it been delayed , if I remember correctly it's meant to be the main source of capital faction mods


It is not delayed. It is on the Update page along with everything else they're including in the Citadel update. They actually have a Pirate Avatar as the image in that part of the update. And yes, it is likely going to be the main source for Capital Faction Modules.

It is unlikely, but I wonder if the Titan spawns will even have Doomsdays. Twisted
Hurtado Soneka
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#306 - 2016-04-20 20:49:52 UTC
We need squadron fighter hotkey selection and a DPS readout for the fitting screen.
Octoven
Stellar Production
#307 - 2016-04-25 01:30:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Octoven
I'm not sure if anyone else noticed , and this is kinda being nitpicky, but FAXs are way too big, I mean I expect them to be bigger than carriers and dreads, but they shouldn't be longer than a supercarrier when it's a vertical ship to begin with. At this scale progression if super FAX are ever a thing, they would be equal to or bigger than a titan to show a size difference from the other FAX.

Would it be possible to reduce their size slightly so that their length is equal to or shorter than carriers? I mean a vertical ship should not also dominate caps on the horizontal axis as well. Also, these things look HORRIBLE in stations because they aren't considered supers, they are norm caps and this they go in the hanger. The nag is vertical and doesn't look as bad. FAXs literally just full up all the hanger space, I think they should have a 25% size reduction but that's my opinion.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#308 - 2016-04-25 15:06:36 UTC
Wanted to give some quick opinions and feedback on FAX but there is no thread i can find for them, so I thought I would post it in here.

I didnt want to give my opinions on them until I had a chance to play about with them on sisi and try to fit some out. There are a few things which are glaringly obvious and probably need to be looked at.

First, the fitting requirements on all FAX, but especially the caldari one, are incredibly tight. For instance, you can fit an absolute maximum of 8 capital mods on the ninazu. This might sound like a lot, but consider that at least 3, most likely 4 of those are taken up by triage mods and remote reps. This leaves 4 capital mods to play with. IF you want to fit a plate, a capital cap booster, and a rep on your ninazu, thats it, you pretty much cannot fit anything else.

This limits the variation and effectiveness of all FAX significantly. I think the powergrid and CPU requirements need careful looking at for all FAX, in order to make sure that they can be fit.

Second, and somehting which is more pressing is using capital cap boosters in any number, especially as a primary source of capacitor. It is completely impractical to use capital cap boosters as they currently are. You simply do not have enough cargo and fleet hangar space to use them reliably. You end up running out very quickly, and then you are screwed. I suggest incresing the fuel bay of the fax machines, and then allowing us to fit capacitor charges in th fuel bay. The reason the fuel bay and not the fleet hangar is because if you were to increase the fleet hangar size, it might unbalance them compared to other capitals, and putting them in the fleet hangar means every time you empty your cargohold, you have to go back to your fleet hangar and drag them over. Massive pain in the butt trust me. Putting thm in the fuel bay would both eliminate having to move charges over the the cargohold (which is tiny and can hardly hold any charges anyway) and allow us to use these charges more practically if you were to increase the fuel bay's size to accomodate them.
Minty Aroma
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#309 - 2016-04-29 17:15:36 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Wanted to give some quick opinions and feedback on FAX but there is no thread i can find for them, so I thought I would post it in here.

I didnt want to give my opinions on them until I had a chance to play about with them on sisi and try to fit some out. There are a few things which are glaringly obvious and probably need to be looked at.

First, the fitting requirements on all FAX, but especially the caldari one, are incredibly tight. For instance, you can fit an absolute maximum of 8 capital mods on the ninazu. This might sound like a lot, but consider that at least 3, most likely 4 of those are taken up by triage mods and remote reps. This leaves 4 capital mods to play with. IF you want to fit a plate, a capital cap booster, and a rep on your ninazu, thats it, you pretty much cannot fit anything else.

This limits the variation and effectiveness of all FAX significantly. I think the powergrid and CPU requirements need careful looking at for all FAX, in order to make sure that they can be fit.

Second, and somehting which is more pressing is using capital cap boosters in any number, especially as a primary source of capacitor. It is completely impractical to use capital cap boosters as they currently are. You simply do not have enough cargo and fleet hangar space to use them reliably. You end up running out very quickly, and then you are screwed. I suggest incresing the fuel bay of the fax machines, and then allowing us to fit capacitor charges in th fuel bay. The reason the fuel bay and not the fleet hangar is because if you were to increase the fleet hangar size, it might unbalance them compared to other capitals, and putting them in the fleet hangar means every time you empty your cargohold, you have to go back to your fleet hangar and drag them over. Massive pain in the butt trust me. Putting thm in the fuel bay would both eliminate having to move charges over the the cargohold (which is tiny and can hardly hold any charges anyway) and allow us to use these charges more practically if you were to increase the fuel bay's size to accomodate them.


Firstly, FAXes are not supposed to use all their highslots for reps/transfers so consider other less costly options if you want a strong tank. Secondly, they are designed with fleet combat in mind, so get the non-cap depedant dreads and carriers to carry a load more cap chargers and then jet-can them mid fight for the FAXes. Also consider deagressing for a minute and swapping out to cap rechargers/flux coils/etc.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#310 - 2016-04-29 23:00:40 UTC
Minty Aroma wrote:
Mr Rive wrote:
Wanted to give some quick opinions and feedback on FAX but there is no thread i can find for them, so I thought I would post it in here.

I didnt want to give my opinions on them until I had a chance to play about with them on sisi and try to fit some out. There are a few things which are glaringly obvious and probably need to be looked at.

First, the fitting requirements on all FAX, but especially the caldari one, are incredibly tight. For instance, you can fit an absolute maximum of 8 capital mods on the ninazu. This might sound like a lot, but consider that at least 3, most likely 4 of those are taken up by triage mods and remote reps. This leaves 4 capital mods to play with. IF you want to fit a plate, a capital cap booster, and a rep on your ninazu, thats it, you pretty much cannot fit anything else.

This limits the variation and effectiveness of all FAX significantly. I think the powergrid and CPU requirements need careful looking at for all FAX, in order to make sure that they can be fit.

Second, and somehting which is more pressing is using capital cap boosters in any number, especially as a primary source of capacitor. It is completely impractical to use capital cap boosters as they currently are. You simply do not have enough cargo and fleet hangar space to use them reliably. You end up running out very quickly, and then you are screwed. I suggest incresing the fuel bay of the fax machines, and then allowing us to fit capacitor charges in th fuel bay. The reason the fuel bay and not the fleet hangar is because if you were to increase the fleet hangar size, it might unbalance them compared to other capitals, and putting them in the fleet hangar means every time you empty your cargohold, you have to go back to your fleet hangar and drag them over. Massive pain in the butt trust me. Putting thm in the fuel bay would both eliminate having to move charges over the the cargohold (which is tiny and can hardly hold any charges anyway) and allow us to use these charges more practically if you were to increase the fuel bay's size to accomodate them.


Firstly, FAXes are not supposed to use all their highslots for reps/transfers so consider other less costly options if you want a strong tank. Secondly, they are designed with fleet combat in mind, so get the non-cap depedant dreads and carriers to carry a load more cap chargers and then jet-can them mid fight for the FAXes. Also consider deagressing for a minute and swapping out to cap rechargers/flux coils/etc.
You haven't tried the new Fax's have you - Pretty much everything you suggested here is wrong.
Capital Cap Booster Charges are ineffective at keeping cap up to a Ninazu unless you use 3 of them for 2 remote reps while in triage, then you will "just" have enough cap for 1 triage cycle. (that is just fail design).

First; There is no carrier or fax that is not reliant on cap boosters, if you use capital modules - The new Network sensor array, will cap out a carrier without using cap boosters (or giving up 3 or 4 much needed fitting slots for cap rechargers and relays).

Second; No self respecting carrier pilot is going to give up fleet hangar space for a fax needing cap charges when he is going to need it for a squad of light fighters as they die so fast. And really, the 78 cap charges you can fit in a fleet hangar, isn't going to help a fax much.

Third; Dread pilots may use fleet hangar for extra charges for a Fax but as the Dread is not reliant on it, they probably won't.

Forth; Drop Triage, wait 1 minute to refit - Your Fax is dead. While you are waiting out the one minute timer, you have no cap to run local reps, without cap charges and as you can't carry enough for more than 1 Triage cycle, well it should be obvious.

Last, Supers and Titans could carry enough spare charges for Fax's but as they are unlikely to see a great deal of use, it is unlikely to help much.

Last carrier was sold last night, won't bother with Fax's - So dreads it is, until someone at CCP wakes up and see's their mistakes. It won't be the current Dev team, they designed carriers and Fax's to be completely disposable - So working as intended.

PS; Full racks of cap rechargers and relays, will leave you defenseless and not cap you up fast enough to survive if called primary. If a Fax can't stay in triage for the duration of a fight, they become a pointless drain on the fleet.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Side1Bu2Rnz9
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#311 - 2016-05-02 04:51:39 UTC
Welcome to DREAD BOMB ONLINE... it's a new game CCP created which totally killed carriers and made dreads better in almost every aspect. Why even worry about capital logistics or carriers or supers when dread bombing can kill a titan and be isk efficient even after loosing all of the dreads.
Casandra Elise McIntire
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#312 - 2016-05-14 11:08:16 UTC
I waited for Citadels to go live and see if there was gonna be any changes to capitals, as they are all massively broken in one way or another.

Hands down shield caps are by far superior in just about every way to armor. Only the Phoenix lags behind, and that is only due to it being missile based. Shield caps have stronger tanks, better fitting options and more potential DPS. Even with Caldari having fitting issues, they still are easily superior.

The cap mods themselves are vastly over priced in fittings. Mods like the cap batteries, armor plates and flex hardeners are completely skewed, with much better options available from the subcap lineup.

Yet again, CCP has zero clue in how ships are fit, and why some moduals are completely ignored.

Cap batteries in particular could be massively effective, but do to extremely high fittings, options like flux coils and cap rechargers far exceed them in function and fitting needs.

Armor plates offer much lower HP bonuses for much higher costs than shield extenders, which have no passive regen vs the latter. Shield fits also gain bonus tank low slots via PDU's, dmg controls, and regen mods. Yet armor still gains none of these advantages.

Then we get into cap mod sizes, all of which are massively larger than basic variants, for no real reason. In a subcap, you can carry nearly a full change of ship fittings, plus a mobile depot for refits. In a cap, you can barely carry any options, much less cap charges.

This entire "rebalance" seems to be more of a complete imbalance to me.

Change can be good, but when it is bad, then get off your duffs and fix it. You've had 3 weeks, yet the only changes have been fixing things that should have never made it to TQ, just like these caps changes shouldn't have, until they had been fully looked at.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#313 - 2016-05-14 17:07:08 UTC
Slaves.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#314 - 2016-05-16 02:08:43 UTC
slaves and the reactive armor hardener
(however in summer shields are getting a similar implant)
as for DPS a moros gets much more than a nag or phoenix while still managing to meat a proper tank not to mention armor capitals can take far better advantage of the new mid slot E-war and cap mods compared to shield fits
Rork Paaltomo
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#315 - 2016-05-24 21:56:15 UTC
in regards to capital weaponry being allowed to use t2 ammo, wouldnt it be better to have two different forms of faction weaponry (in the same way drones have two different faction variants) a t1 faction weapon that uses t1 ammo only and a t2 one that uses t2 ammo. or at least find a way to tweak the current system so you dont lose your weapon spec skill bonus for using faction instead of t2 (like tying the spec bonus to the ammo being used instead of the module)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#316 - 2016-05-24 22:27:00 UTC
i think they way they have done it is much better. it lets you get the benefit of faction weapons while still letting you use t2 ammo while not making t2 guns obsolete since they get a 10% bonus from the skill
Milostiev
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#317 - 2016-05-27 03:10:18 UTC
Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:
Welcome to DREAD BOMB ONLINE... it's a new game CCP created which totally killed carriers and made dreads better in almost every aspect. Why even worry about capital logistics or carriers or supers when dread bombing can kill a titan and be isk efficient even after loosing all of the dreads.


Unless we discount the instalocking ability of carriers and supercarriers now.
This is more broken than 40km scram HICs, you can get away from those if you are ab fit or do over 3.5km/s in frig (inertia will carry you out after scram).
Insta-alpha of death of 24k ehp (with t1 fighters), that can do 8-10km/s for 20s, can warp with carrier, which is 1000+km from gate/station because they decided that citadels could be on grid with gates.

I have no idea who at CCP thought it was a good idea to make the NSA, but i would not be surprised if it was reported as OP as hell during testing.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#318 - 2016-05-27 04:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
except

A) if a carrier managed to alpha you then you screwed up either in your fitting or your piloting at best they get 42K alpha with faction DDAs any cruiser can sig tank most of that and anything bigger should be able to shake that off with logi.

B) after that 20s burst (that can be stopped by a scram) they then go back down to about 1k only able to get off one salvo in that time.

C) can not warp with the carrier can only warp after the carrier

D) a carrier may have fast locking but you then need to add the lock time (and possibly flight time) of the fighters.

oh and the biggest one

E) an entire super carrier worth of fighters CAN BE 100% Jamed by a t1 frig.


in closing if you got killed by a carrier you ****** up


EDIT

now a supported carrier can make a mess of small subcaps(t1 cruiser and smaller) and be a huge help against bigger sub caps with well timed alpha. This is how it should be when using a capital dedicated to killing sub caps. Scary when supported a joke when on its own.

however with or without support dreads are just better. they have better DPS against sub caps and much better application when supported (except phoenix) laughably better DPM. Dreads can swap mid fight to counter a capital drop (carriers just try to gtfo). Dreads can local tank where carriers need to utilize logistics and with the triage nerf this means removing more pilots from dps roles to fly logi
Milostiev
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#319 - 2016-06-05 08:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Milostiev
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
except

A) if a carrier managed to alpha you then you screwed up either in your fitting or your piloting at best they get 42K alpha with faction DDAs any cruiser can sig tank most of that and anything bigger should be able to shake that off with logi.

I look forward to showing me how to fit a solo frig/cruiser in such a way that it can take the full alpha of a carrier after jumping in and still preserve it's potential for solo.
Please come with examples.
Maybe i'm doing something wrong with my ceptors, slashers, breachers, atrons and executioners.

Quote:
B) after that 20s burst (that can be stopped by a scram) they then go back down to about 1k only able to get off one salvo in that time.

You don't need the mwd cycle on fighters if something jumps into you through a regular gate., and even if you do need it, within 20s, you can get 2 rocket salvo's off, as 3x FSU I carrier has a cycle of under 16s on them.

Quote:
D) a carrier may have fast locking but you then need to add the lock time (and possibly flight time) of the fighters.

As a frigate you have 4s, 7-8s for ceptor, 3-4s for a cruiser, before missiles start flying.
Only ceptors have a decent chance of surviving this because of their mwd sig reduction bonus (at lvl 5 it's pretty awesome) and them not being affected by bubbles.
If you spawn on the right side of the gate (the one closest to celestials you can warp to) and if you time right the 1st mwd cycle to be an overload, you have about 10-11s before fighters catch up to you and missiles start flying, it's close but you could get out that way.
If it's just solo carrier, you can easily make it back to the gate. You can even tank a svipul on the gate, if it's setup as an instalocker there.

Quote:
E) an entire super carrier worth of fighters CAN BE 100% Jamed by a t1 frig.

Nothing can be 100% jammed. Even when you should 100% jam something, jamming can still fail.

Quote:
in closing if you got killed by a carrier you ****** up

Have you actually roamed solo or in small gang and jumped into a carrier gatecamping ?
I have, plenty of times, and i have been on the other side of this too, the carrier who is camping.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#320 - 2016-06-05 08:20:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Milostiev wrote:

Quote:
E) an entire super carrier worth of fighters CAN BE 100% Jamed by a t1 frig.

Nothing can be 100% jammed. Even when you should 100% jam something, jamming can still fail.


...

no

it cant

its one of the biggest and only issues i have with ECM


griffin jam of 7.24

dragon fly strength of 7

7.24/7 * 100 = 103

you will jam the fighter 103% of the time

as for D

fit AB not MWD

B

only if you were sitting right on top when you started

A

MMO should not be ballanced around solo

if you are in a solo sub cap and find yourself facing a ship built to kill sub caps your dead

however just about any AB fit frig can live long enough to burn back to a gate if you want extra security put a synth X-inst in your cargo hold