These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#1801 - 2016-04-16 19:54:59 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ashterothi wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like?



... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for.

I mean it is literally their job


This is one of the most difficult design challenges available. What we are discussing is an unobtrusive and elegant way of controlling thousands of humans behavior. These problems are extremely complex, and many videogames have suffered greatly by incorrect answers to 'simple' design problems.

You are paying them to provide you a service, and to continue to wrestle with how to make that service better. However, this cannot be done in a vacuum, or without missteps, as no one is perfect.

Critiquing the design is useful, insulting the task, or the person, is not.


Lol that wasn't my intention what I meant by that is I expect a rocket engineer to get their craft into space but I'm not qualified to tell them how. But I can point them to attempts in the past that did not do well and others that did.


One thing they could do is fix industry teams in know the short time they were out they got me to log in several times a day to check in and modify bids all without making me feel like I was being made to unnaturally.


I understand your point. However, it came across as "I pay them money, they should know how to do it well." and while it is true that rocket scientists are highly trained, and probably the most qualified people on the planet to get a rocket into space, it doesn't make the problem of warp drive any easier to figure out.

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1802 - 2016-04-16 19:58:55 UTC

What a spiffing idea!

I log in pretty much every day as it is, but this will really help us newer players get some extra skill points, the skill injectors are way to pricey for anyone but the elite brigade, probably the same chaps that are poo pooing this stupendous idea.

Thanks for thinking about the big picture CCP.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1803 - 2016-04-16 20:19:33 UTC
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance wrote:

What a spiffing idea!

I log in pretty much every day as it is, but this will really help us newer players get some extra skill points, the skill injectors are way to pricey for anyone but the elite brigade, probably the same chaps that are poo pooing this stupendous idea.

Thanks for thinking about the big picture CCP.


Yes We are old and bitter and just can't stand the idea of new players getting sp. It's why none of us in this thread put up better ideas for me players to get sp of there was an issue with it

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1804 - 2016-04-16 20:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Ashterothi wrote:

I understand your point. However, it came across as "I pay them money, they should know how to do it well." and while it is true that rocket scientists are highly trained, and probably the most qualified people on the planet to get a rocket into space, it doesn't make the problem of warp drive any easier to figure out.


Lol with how disrespectful rises last comment was I'm not bothered if mine came off that way.


As fir the paying thing that was directed more at the point of, I'm paying them to provide me a service yet with this change they are expecting their customers to provide them with the service of increasing their numbers in one of the most appallingly artifishal ways.

Particularly when once again we have seen they know how to do it better

Teams were better

The queue was better

Industry jobs are better

POS fuel is better.

Something else they could do is missions or escalations that go on for multiple days. Say you turn something in to a research agent and they tell you they will have the results tomorrow. Turns out its a map to a pirate hq that is rumored to have rare loot or a high ranking officer is hold up there. Make then hard and require team work. (Look now you ate getting their friends to log in and I didn't need sp to do it)

Make it so the info is only good for x amount of days


You could even do similar things with data and relic sites

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#1805 - 2016-04-16 20:55:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ashterothi wrote:

I understand your point. However, it came across as "I pay them money, they should know how to do it well." and while it is true that rocket scientists are highly trained, and probably the most qualified people on the planet to get a rocket into space, it doesn't make the problem of warp drive any easier to figure out.


Lol with how disrespectful rises last comment was I'm not bothered if mine came off that way.


As fir the paying thing that was directed more at the point of, I'm paying them to provide me a service yet with this change they are expecting their customers to provide them with the service of increasing their numbers in one of the most appallingly artifishal ways.

Particularly when once again we have seen they know how to do it better

Teams were better

The queue was better

Industry jobs are better

POS fuel is better.

Something else they could do is missions or escalations that go on for multiple days. Say you turn something in to a research agent and they tell you they will have the results tomorrow. Turns out its a map to a pirate hq that is rumored to have rare loot or a high ranking officer is hold up there. Make then hard and require team work. (Look now you ate getting their friends to log in and I didn't need sp to do it)

Make it so the info is only good for x amount of days


You could even do similar things with data and relic sites


As you can tell by reading what I wrote about it, I don't disagree with you in principle. However it is just as important that our messaging to CCP be of high quality, as the opposite is true.

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Verdis deMosays
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1806 - 2016-04-16 21:48:17 UTC
Don't do dailies.

I played WoW since Wrath, and hated feeling like I was chained to dailies on my characters. It gives a feel of "do this thing, or know you're not doing what you should be." It's not appealing, just grindy. It's a turnoff in WoW, and Eve is as far from wow as you can get. Don't ruin the flavor.

Don't do dailies.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#1807 - 2016-04-16 21:56:50 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tomika wrote:
CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like?



... if they can't figure that one out what the hell am I paying them for.

I mean it is literally their job


Problem is, Lugh, there are a lot of voices on the forums who feel EVE should be a particular way and that it should never change. It's gotta be tough to satisfy those people whilst making EVE more fun to play.


"EVE should be more fun"...

...for whom?


For anyone who wants to go out and find it. It's a big universe.
It's just that most of us stick our toes into different corners and find a few things we just keep doing.

A signature :o
Shakira Akira
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1808 - 2016-04-16 22:02:21 UTC
Drago Shouna wrote:
Shakira Akira wrote:
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:


CCP has to care about ALL OF ITS CUSTOMERS, not only about the older one... They look at stats and comments from ALL players and ponder the whole thing.


They could have ended with decaying SP (after X time without connexion, you'd start to lose SP) but they didn't... They were even going to give the same amount of SP to every players and not a decreasing return like you can see with injectors.



Except if you look at the trend in the video game industry, you will notice that games are leaning towards the instant gratification vice long term planning and forethought.. THE VERY REASON that the game EvE managed to survive because people that didn't want to play the kiddy games came to play here instead, where your actions really mattered.



With some of the temper tantrums in this thread some of them should go back to kids games.

How some haven't got at the least a lengthy forum ban is beyond me after the abuse they are giving out towards the devs.



Not sure how you interpret that as tempter tantrum. Nor how it's abusive.

I'm merely stating a point that the hardcore and difficulty of the game is what brought in the players. Not an "easy" button. And a lot of people are already pointing out the "chore" that making a daily that rewards 4hours worth of SP will turn into. (not to mention how it will mess up the market for injectors and PLEX considering how much more "free SP" will be available to rip out and sell.
Vanislevagabond
Edge Of Infinity
True Reign
#1809 - 2016-04-16 22:03:23 UTC
CCP ; "Our numbers are down, lets pay players to log in, we have already devalued isk, but sp's still valuable. Not as much as before injectors , but if we pay directly to characters more should log in. So what if it devalues the time older players have invested in the game. So what it devalues sp's going forward. So what if the main difference between Eve and lesser mmo's out there is lost. We need numbers and paying players to log in for 5 mins. to kill a rat will buff them."

Shame on you CCP.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1810 - 2016-04-16 22:31:50 UTC
Vanislevagabond wrote:
CCP ; "Our numbers are down, lets pay players to log in, we have already devalued isk, but sp's still valuable. Not as much as before injectors , but if we pay directly to characters more should log in. So what if it devalues the time older players have invested in the game. So what it devalues sp's going forward. So what if the main difference between Eve and lesser mmo's out there is lost. We need numbers and paying players to log in for 5 mins. to kill a rat will buff them."

Shame on you CCP.


It doesn't devalue the sp of older players or devalues the sp of all players

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1811 - 2016-04-16 23:29:46 UTC
Burning out; no longer just for moon logistics and jump freighter pilots
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1812 - 2016-04-16 23:48:40 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
Burning out; no longer just for moon logistics and jump freighter pilots



*finds logistics relaxing and now feels ashamed

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1813 - 2016-04-16 23:57:35 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
Burning out; no longer just for moon logistics and jump freighter pilots


I am on hour ten of lighting cynos today. I hear there are fun, interesting things to do in Eve, but not going to have time to do any of them today.

Which leads me to my newest idea... Instead of killing a rat, every player should have to light a cyno once a day. Twisted

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#1814 - 2016-04-17 00:08:53 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
Burning out; no longer just for moon logistics and jump freighter pilots


I am on hour ten of lighting cynos today. I hear there are fun, interesting things to do in Eve, but not going to have time to do any of them today.

Which leads me to my newest idea... Instead of killing a rat, every player should have to light a cyno once a day. Twisted


At least that kind of tedium has a meaning to it and adds to the value of other things done in the game.

Lol

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1815 - 2016-04-17 04:27:27 UTC
Tomika wrote:
CCP has the perennial problem of finding ways to motivate players in a sandbox. People say "make the game more fun to play instead of forcing me to log in for my 10K SP" but what exactly does "more fun" look like?

To answer that challenge here are some ideas.

Dynamic NPC creation: Currently every NPC is hard coded, we can look it's stats up on several databases. Instead have NPC's use ship hulls, and then add fittings in a kitset manner. Mostly respecting player fitting limits. Differences in fit can be explained by non commercial capsuleer pods, or totally no pod at all in the case of weaker NPC's. Now NPC's aren't as boring because they change more.

Dynamic Missions & sites. Further from above (which already causes Missions to be more dynamic since you can't be 100% sure of the opponents anymore, just general ideas), create mission sites from kitsets so that the 100th time you rescue the damsel is not the exact same as the other 99 times. Create more varied & even multiple objectives as well as multiple ways to solve the problem. If there are 5 ways to rescue the damsel, 20 random secondary objectives that appear, and the NPCs change a bit each time, then it's not going to feel the same mission, even if the same text is employed.

Fuzzy information. Currently we get perfect information. Local shows exactly who is in our system, deep scan shows their exact ship class, overview shows their exact name tied with ship type. Make this fuzzy, Constellation chat only tells you who is in the region, chat delays mean you can't assume the list is perfect, deep scan could only show ship size. Fuzzy information makes more room for bad choices to occur, and bad choices are actually where things get exciting, because now your planned gank of a helpless victim has suddenly turned into a close fight.

Three easy ways to make things more fun, interesting and ENGAGING.
Engaging is the big one, that's what actually makes people stay logged in and playing the game.

Logging in to do a repetitive daily quest fails on all of those factors, It's simply a grind to get the new daily SP limit. And grinding for SP is bad for many reasons.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1816 - 2016-04-17 07:51:17 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!

Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".

That's like mouse eating a cactus gets a "attaboy" every time it's done eating. Why are you doing what you explicitly characterized as "not fun and poorly done"?Lol


Because I've find my way to enjoy it, with occasional breaks to play funnier but less engaging int he logn run purely PvP games. I started multiplaying online for PvP, and EVE is the only game where I've never done PvP. And that's because of the so vaunted "meaningfulness".

EVE's PvP is so meaningful that I avoid it for my own good. This leaves me with PvE, which I wish was a way to PvP by other means rather than be an exercise in "press buton, get bacon, figure what to do with all that effin' bacon until you're so tired of bacon that you need some real fun for a change".

The real thing is that I don't need no effin' SP, no effin' ISK, no effin' nothing more from EVE. All I need is know that the old button will be there when I figure another different way to use all that stupid bacon. Now, with extra SP.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1817 - 2016-04-17 08:01:17 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

No. I am saying that getting 10,000 free SP just for playing my way, each day, is nice with me. It's literally money for nothing for me. I mean, I even shoot rats in belts while mining. I rarely log off without killing a NPC. And now CCP wants to give me 10,000 free SP each day for it? Bring it on!

Dailies are not about EVE being fun. They're a bribe to bear with how unfun it is. It's like saying "here, have unlimited coffee while you eat our poorly done breakfast".

That's like mouse eating a cactus gets a "attaboy" every time it's done eating. Why are you doing what you explicitly characterized as "not fun and poorly done"?Lol


Because I've find my way to enjoy it, with occasional breaks to play funnier but less engaging int he logn run purely PvP games. I started multiplaying online for PvP, and EVE is the only game where I've never done PvP. And that's because of the so vaunted "meaningfulness".

EVE's PvP is so meaningful that I avoid it for my own good. This leaves me with PvE, which I wish was a way to PvP by other means rather than be an exercise in "press buton, get bacon, figure what to do with all that effin' bacon until you're so tired of bacon that you need some real fun for a change".

The real thing is that I don't need no effin' SP, no effin' ISK, no effin' nothing more from EVE. All I need is know that the old button will be there when I figure another different way to use all that stupid bacon. Now, with extra SP.



Just how long have you been playing eve and not liking it it while you wait for it to turn into another game?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#1818 - 2016-04-17 08:18:52 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Because I've find my way to enjoy it, with occasional breaks to play funnier but less engaging int he logn run purely PvP games. I started multiplaying online for PvP, and EVE is the only game where I've never done PvP. And that's because of the so vaunted "meaningfulness".

EVE's PvP is so meaningful that I avoid it for my own good. This leaves me with PvE, which I wish was a way to PvP by other means rather than be an exercise in "press buton, get bacon, figure what to do with all that effin' bacon until you're so tired of bacon that you need some real fun for a change".

The real thing is that I don't need no effin' SP, no effin' ISK, no effin' nothing more from EVE. All I need is know that the old button will be there when I figure another different way to use all that stupid bacon. Now, with extra SP.


Mate, at first I thought you were a bit of a ledge when you told me to get off my PvP high horse, but now you're just being cheeky. Lot of the lads playing EVE have this mindset, unfortunately.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1819 - 2016-04-17 08:35:00 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Because I've find my way to enjoy it, with occasional breaks to play funnier but less engaging int he logn run purely PvP games. I started multiplaying online for PvP, and EVE is the only game where I've never done PvP. And that's because of the so vaunted "meaningfulness".

EVE's PvP is so meaningful that I avoid it for my own good. This leaves me with PvE, which I wish was a way to PvP by other means rather than be an exercise in "press buton, get bacon, figure what to do with all that effin' bacon until you're so tired of bacon that you need some real fun for a change".

The real thing is that I don't need no effin' SP, no effin' ISK, no effin' nothing more from EVE. All I need is know that the old button will be there when I figure another different way to use all that stupid bacon. Now, with extra SP.


Mate, at first I thought you were a bit of a ledge when you told me to get off my PvP high horse, but now you're just being cheeky. Lot of the lads playing EVE have this mindset, unfortunately.


Now you lost me completely with that ledge and cheeky thing, I'm not making any sense of your post. UghQuestion
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#1820 - 2016-04-17 08:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ria Nieyli
Well, it's always like this, some lad who thinks he's the Archbishop of Banterbury proper comes along and starts posting like a right tone-deaf crotch dragon, telling you off for doing something ingame... nothing you can do but make yourself a cuppa and nod.