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Fail Gank attempt

Author
Sith Raged
New Eden's Medical Laboratory
#1 - 2016-04-16 02:21:59 UTC
So I have been watching some youtube videos about how to gank freights and that sort of stuff.....now, I FAILED big time on my first attempt, I have seen many ganks at jita and dodixie.....wanted to do something like that but failed miserably, what I did wrong? I have no idea....I followed step by step in how to do so....yes I know im a noob...but after seen how much isk you can steal from their wrecks....that's something I decided to do...but....just found out I suck at it.....

any advice? how to gank a freight and kill it before you get killed by concord?
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#2 - 2016-04-16 02:24:29 UTC
Sith Raged wrote:
any advice? how to gank a freight and kill it before you get killed by concord?


bring a lot of friends with you.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#3 - 2016-04-16 02:43:57 UTC
Sith Raged wrote:
So I have been watching some youtube videos about how to gank freights and that sort of stuff.....now, I FAILED big time on my first attempt, I have seen many ganks at jita and dodixie.....wanted to do something like that but failed miserably, what I did wrong? I have no idea....I followed step by step in how to do so....yes I know im a noob...but after seen how much isk you can steal from their wrecks....that's something I decided to do...but....just found out I suck at it.....

any advice? how to gank a freight and kill it before you get killed by concord?


I'm pretty sure minerbumping.com will have the answers you seek. If not, it's a pretty good blog(satire).
Sir Dude
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-04-16 03:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Dude
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Sith Raged wrote:
any advice? how to gank a freight and kill it before you get killed by concord?


bring a lot of friends with you.


^This

I'm also new to the game too but would like to add my 2 pence worth on this. So,

1 - Remember that many of the folks making YouTube vids are going to be experienced pros and you might have overlooked something...even if they didn't mention it.

2 - It's not easy to gank large freighters unless there are lots of you in high dps gun platforms, so you personally need to have good skills so that you can do lots of damage, lose your unblingy ship to concord and then still profit from the loot.

3 - From my short time playing this game I've come to the conclusion that when in high sec then it's about lasting long enough till Concord show and kill.....low sec is about not getting caught in the first place. If I know this then everyone does, pretty much.

4 - Haulers and miners have their tricks too to avoid what you are trying to bring down on them.......like haulers can spot a double wrapped (gank) contract and bells start ringing, so when they get close to a gank spot (say the bottle neck area at Uedama) then they dock and wait till asap after down time and then go as it's hard to organize a gank so fast then.

5 - I watched Johnny Pew YT vid on this and they have like 40-50 gankers to take an Obelisk out as I think concord spawns 3 ships for every ganker...need to be good, in the right ships and have high dps.

There are way more experienced players than me that could add a lot more but just wanted to point out that there is much to consider and get right.
Sp3ktr3
The Regency
The Monarchy
#5 - 2016-04-16 04:24:49 UTC
Just keep shooting at random people in high sec. You'll kill one eventually.
Ka Plaa
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-04-16 04:47:00 UTC
Freighters are really slow to go into warp. Locking a target is not considered an aggressive action and neither is bumping another ship. Target lock the freighter, bump it to break it's spool up to go into warp, shoot it twice with 8 destroyer guns, immediate warp out of the system, warp right back in, repeat. You might not get one 5 times, but #6 could be a big payday, so just keep doing it. gl
Dani Gallar
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-04-16 04:56:26 UTC
Sith Raged wrote:
So I have been watching some youtube videos about how to gank freights and that sort of stuff.....now, I FAILED big time on my first attempt, I have seen many ganks at jita and dodixie.....wanted to do something like that but failed miserably, what I did wrong? I have no idea....I followed step by step in how to do so....yes I know im a noob...but after seen how much isk you can steal from their wrecks....that's something I decided to do...but....just found out I suck at it.....

any advice? how to gank a freight and kill it before you get killed by concord?


If I where to guess the videos you saw was from before the added 33 % basic hull resistance. This bonus resistance means that you will need to bring more firepower then the gankers in said videos had to have or else Concord will arrive before you are finished. Other then that bringing down bigger ships needs many gankers to work together, it can“t be done solo (in high-sec).
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-04-16 05:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Ka Plaa wrote:
Freighters are really slow to go into warp. Locking a target is not considered an aggressive action and neither is bumping another ship. Target lock the freighter, bump it to break it's spool up to go into warp, shoot it twice with 8 destroyer guns, immediate warp out of the system, warp right back in, repeat. You might not get one 5 times, but #6 could be a big payday, so just keep doing it. gl


Was the boomerang tactic not nerfed? Last time I had one I couldn't warp off with a criminal counter. And I hear hyperdunking has been hit with the nerfbat as well, so there's probably no known way right now to suicide gank a freighter with a single ship.

OP: I do not know which video you watched, but don't blindly rely on those. Suicide ganking has changed a lot over the years, and you probably can still find guides suggesting the use of tempests or maelstroms for suiciding, which is horrible these days. If you have a friend to help you or a second account, log in to Singularity and try it out with different ship types. Typically people gank using Catalysts, Thoraxes, Vexors, Brutixes, Taloses, Thrashers and Tornadoes. The Gallente ships usually go with Blasters and work best if you have a long time (for example in a 0.5 system). The Minmatar ones go with Artillery, and they work even in 1.0 systems, if you can kill your target with one volley. The Thrasher is pretty much only good for Shuttles, Noobships and Pods, but for those it's a no-brainer.

Figure out how long Concord will take to arrive in your target system (it depends on the security status and if there's a Concord spawn already around in system or not. For example, in a 0.9 system that doesn't have a Concord spawn yet, you will have 6 seconds, if there is a Concord spawn that is not on grid, you will have a couple seconds more. If there is a spawn on grid, you are probably toast after one volley of your guns) and calculate how much damage you can do with your ship in that time. Keep your cycle time in mind, not the raw DPS (unless your cycle time is 1 second :) ). This will determine what you can potentially kill.

Now, try to assess how many HP which type of ship typically has, either by scanning your target with a ship scanner and a passive targeter or by looking up common fits. That way you will learn what's within your weight class and what is not. If you are flying a Catalyst for example, look for badly tanked T1 industrials and mining barges (except the procurer).

Once you have found a suitable target, get into your optimal range, pre-heat and pre-cycle your guns and scram, so they will all hit at the same time and then start targeting. This is important, because the Concord response timer will start ticking as soon as you activate any aggressive module on the target, no matter if it does any damage or not. If you did your homework, the target will go pop and so will you. Have a friend or alt scoop the loot and scurry off, as by doing that, he will get a suspect timer.

With a Talos, you can get around 6500 volley with a cycle time of 4.16 seconds or so. In a 0.5 system, you will have about 19 seconds, which is 4 cycles or (on paper, mind you) 26000 damage. 50% of that is kinetic, 50% is thermal. So, if you are solo, you can potentially kill something that has less than 26000 EHP against this kinetic/thermal resist profile (assuming it's big/slow enough for you to hit properly). If Concord has been spawned before in that system, you might even get a bit more out of it, but I'd say anything beyond 30000 EHP is out of your reach, unless you bring friends.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#9 - 2016-04-16 05:36:39 UTC
Sith Raged wrote:
So I have been watching some youtube videos about how to gank freights and that sort of stuff.....now, I FAILED big time on my first attempt, I have seen many ganks at jita and dodixie.....wanted to do something like that but failed miserably, what I did wrong? I have no idea....I followed step by step in how to do so....yes I know im a noob...but after seen how much isk you can steal from their wrecks....that's something I decided to do...but....just found out I suck at it.....

any advice? how to gank a freight and kill it before you get killed by concord?
I assume you are referring to other haulers, not freighter themselves. Freighter have too many EHP to kill with one or only a couple people. The other haulers are variously vulnerable, with T1 industrials and blockade runners being good targets, while DSTs can be much tougher and out of the range of a single ganker. Study the kills and losses on zKillbiard for Jita to get a feeling of how many ships are needed, and what fits are good to use. CONCORD kills appear on the killboards (if api linked) so there is lots of information.

In a high security status system like Jita you will generally only get one shot before CONCORD kills you. Focus on using high alpha ships like Tornados and Thrashers. If you are in a lower security status system and are trying to get more shots off, it is inportant that CONCORD is not already on the grid with you.

Killing people in spite of the NPC protection requires some practice and and good understanding of the mechanics. Do some reading and then, like anything in this game, give it a go starting small as you will fail. Eventually, with practice, you will be exploding the careless and serving as an agent of risk in highsec generating player-driven content and getting paid for it in loot.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-04-16 05:42:02 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Ka Plaa wrote:
Freighters are really slow to go into warp. Locking a target is not considered an aggressive action and neither is bumping another ship. Target lock the freighter, bump it to break it's spool up to go into warp, shoot it twice with 8 destroyer guns, immediate warp out of the system, warp right back in, repeat. You might not get one 5 times, but #6 could be a big payday, so just keep doing it. gl


Was the boomerang tactic not nerfed?.


Yeah CCP fixed that years ago.

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Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#11 - 2016-04-16 07:05:13 UTC
T1 industrials come in two flavors:
The ones with the big holds are slow and squishy.
The ones with the smaller holds can be made pretty hard to pop.

A signature :o

Sith Raged
New Eden's Medical Laboratory
#12 - 2016-04-16 08:12:03 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Sith Raged wrote:
So I have been watching some youtube videos about how to gank freights and that sort of stuff.....now, I FAILED big time on my first attempt, I have seen many ganks at jita and dodixie.....wanted to do something like that but failed miserably, what I did wrong? I have no idea....I followed step by step in how to do so....yes I know im a noob...but after seen how much isk you can steal from their wrecks....that's something I decided to do...but....just found out I suck at it.....

any advice? how to gank a freight and kill it before you get killed by concord?
I assume you are referring to other haulers, not freighter themselves. Freighter have too many EHP to kill with one or only a couple people. The other haulers are variously vulnerable, with T1 industrials and blockade runners being good targets, while DSTs can be much tougher and out of the range of a single ganker. Study the kills and losses on zKillbiard for Jita to get a feeling of how many ships are needed, and what fits are good to use. CONCORD kills appear on the killboards (if api linked) so there is lots of information.

In a high security status system like Jita you will generally only get one shot before CONCORD kills you. Focus on using high alpha ships like Tornados and Thrashers. If you are in a lower security status system and are trying to get more shots off, it is inportant that CONCORD is not already on the grid with you.

Killing people in spite of the NPC protection requires some practice and and good understanding of the mechanics. Do some reading and then, like anything in this game, give it a go starting small as you will fail. Eventually, with practice, you will be exploding the careless and serving as an agent of risk in highsec generating player-driven content and getting paid for it in loot.



yes I was reffering to the industrial ones, not the big freighters but the easy ones to get, like tayra and such
Black Pedro
Mine.
#13 - 2016-04-16 08:34:27 UTC
Sith Raged wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Sith Raged wrote:
So I have been watching some youtube videos about how to gank freights and that sort of stuff.....now, I FAILED big time on my first attempt, I have seen many ganks at jita and dodixie.....wanted to do something like that but failed miserably, what I did wrong? I have no idea....I followed step by step in how to do so....yes I know im a noob...but after seen how much isk you can steal from their wrecks....that's something I decided to do...but....just found out I suck at it.....

any advice? how to gank a freight and kill it before you get killed by concord?
I assume you are referring to other haulers, not freighter themselves. Freighter have too many EHP to kill with one or only a couple people. The other haulers are variously vulnerable, with T1 industrials and blockade runners being good targets, while DSTs can be much tougher and out of the range of a single ganker. Study the kills and losses on zKillbiard for Jita to get a feeling of how many ships are needed, and what fits are good to use. CONCORD kills appear on the killboards (if api linked) so there is lots of information.

In a high security status system like Jita you will generally only get one shot before CONCORD kills you. Focus on using high alpha ships like Tornados and Thrashers. If you are in a lower security status system and are trying to get more shots off, it is inportant that CONCORD is not already on the grid with you.

Killing people in spite of the NPC protection requires some practice and and good understanding of the mechanics. Do some reading and then, like anything in this game, give it a go starting small as you will fail. Eventually, with practice, you will be exploding the careless and serving as an agent of risk in highsec generating player-driven content and getting paid for it in loot.



yes I was reffering to the industrial ones, not the big freighters but the easy ones to get, like tayra and such
Take a look here then: https://zkillboard.com/system/30000142/losses/

You will see killmails of both exploded industrials where you can see the number of attackers and types of ships needed, and the fit of the gank ships themselves.

You will also need half-decent skills if you want to gank as you need massive damage in the short time before CONCORD or the station/gate guns explode you.

Sith Raged
New Eden's Medical Laboratory
#14 - 2016-04-16 09:46:49 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Sith Raged wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Sith Raged wrote:
So I have been watching some youtube videos about how to gank freights and that sort of stuff.....now, I FAILED big time on my first attempt, I have seen many ganks at jita and dodixie.....wanted to do something like that but failed miserably, what I did wrong? I have no idea....I followed step by step in how to do so....yes I know im a noob...but after seen how much isk you can steal from their wrecks....that's something I decided to do...but....just found out I suck at it.....

any advice? how to gank a freight and kill it before you get killed by concord?
I assume you are referring to other haulers, not freighter themselves. Freighter have too many EHP to kill with one or only a couple people. The other haulers are variously vulnerable, with T1 industrials and blockade runners being good targets, while DSTs can be much tougher and out of the range of a single ganker. Study the kills and losses on zKillbiard for Jita to get a feeling of how many ships are needed, and what fits are good to use. CONCORD kills appear on the killboards (if api linked) so there is lots of information.

In a high security status system like Jita you will generally only get one shot before CONCORD kills you. Focus on using high alpha ships like Tornados and Thrashers. If you are in a lower security status system and are trying to get more shots off, it is inportant that CONCORD is not already on the grid with you.

Killing people in spite of the NPC protection requires some practice and and good understanding of the mechanics. Do some reading and then, like anything in this game, give it a go starting small as you will fail. Eventually, with practice, you will be exploding the careless and serving as an agent of risk in highsec generating player-driven content and getting paid for it in loot.



yes I was reffering to the industrial ones, not the big freighters but the easy ones to get, like tayra and such
Take a look here then: https://zkillboard.com/system/30000142/losses/

You will see killmails of both exploded industrials where you can see the number of attackers and types of ships needed, and the fit of the gank ships themselves.

You will also need half-decent skills if you want to gank as you need massive damage in the short time before CONCORD or the station/gate guns explode you.



well I been trying to gank at the gates in high sec...should I gank at the stations instead?
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#15 - 2016-04-16 10:51:55 UTC
It's lovely to see failed ganks. Karma.
Sith Raged
New Eden's Medical Laboratory
#16 - 2016-04-16 11:00:26 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
It's lovely to see failed ganks. Karma.



hmmm first time doing it? haven't done this......you learn with your mistakes right?
Pix Severus
Empty You
#17 - 2016-04-16 11:37:52 UTC
If you gank on gates, you'll have to tank the gate guns as well as CONCORD, make sure your ship is tanked for the damage type that the gate guns do and that CONCORD aren't already sitting there.

Bunnie Hop wrote:
It's lovely to see failed ganks. Karma.


Karma? For what? Trying something new in a video game?

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Black Pedro
Mine.
#18 - 2016-04-16 11:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Sith Raged wrote:
well I been trying to gank at the gates in high sec...should I gank at the stations instead?
Either is fine.

Depending on the security status you will either get exploded by CONCORD or by the gate guns. Either case make sure you are in range and have low traversal to maximize your damage and just let 'er rip. You can look at your combat log and see how much damage you did and if you are doing something wrong.

If you are not scanning their fits you may fail a lot as some industrial are actually tanked are will be tough to kill, while others will be paper-thin and explode if you just look at them.

You might want to start with Thrashers and target shuttles until you get comfortable (see: http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/01/thrasing-and-vexing.html ). Then you can move up to using gank cruisers (like a Vexor or Moa), or the king of alpha ganking, the Tornado. For hunting industrials, the Tornado is where you are going to want to eventually end up.

Ganking off station/gate in lower security space (0.5-0.7) opens up the possibility of using the high-DPS blaster gankers (Catalyst, Vexor, Brutix and Talos) because of the lack of sentry guns and slower CONCORD response. However, the industrials with the juiciest loot are only going to fly Station -> Gate -> Station and thus you are better off with the high alpha gankers like the Tornado if that is your primary prey.
Sir Dude
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2016-04-16 14:13:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Dude
There is another alternative to outright ganking at gates. Sit above a gate and wait for people with active kill rights on them or are suspect to arrive and then kill them......if my memory serves me correctly there are a few people (even corps) that do this (especially at gates close to low sec).

You will need a ship with a fast lock though......but no worries about CONCORD then. Also, as with ganking, you need to be good and skilled as you never know who's coming through.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2016-04-16 15:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
If you gank on gates or stations there's another factor to keep in mind: The sentry guns will react much faster than Concord. As soon as you aggress, they will start hitting. If you are in a cruiser or bigger, they likely won't kill you before Concord arrives, but if you are in a destroyer, they will.

As has been stated, alpha tends to work best in that case, but you won't kill much with a single thrasher. If you know your target has something worthwhile in it's cargo, you can try a Tornado, which has a volley of about 10-11k and can murder most T1 industrials in one shot. A Thorax or Vexor with a cheap buffer tank might work as well. Just try it out on Sisi.
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