EVE General Discussion

Repeatedly calling someone a hypocrite doesn't make it so. You're throwing up arguments I've not made and making comparisons as if all third party application have the same level of benefit. At no point have I sat around saying "no third party tools give any advantage", I've simply pointed out that the types and degrees of advantage differ. Are you seriously suggesting that teamspeak gives as much of an unfair advantage as IWI? One is freely available to all players at the click of a button and allows marginally faster communication than the already existing voice communication built into EVE, and the other is available only to players with a certain out of game skillset and allows the acquisition of trillions of isk with no in-game counter.

At this point it can only be that you are trolling. Quite honestly though if you can't even keep it civil I have no time for you.

Are you honestly saying major coalitions could have taken and held the space in sov null that they did without extensive use of out of game 3rd party tools?

If I am a dynamic personality capable of generating rhetoric and storylines that lead people to give me ISK for the pure value of entertainment (CODE, for example) that leads to a huge amount of ISK donated, should that not be allowed now too? After all, it's relying on an out of game skillset that those without cannot counter in-game. You say IWI has an unfair advantage. That's flat out irrelevant. EVE isn't fair. Deal with it. That comes with the territory.

Can you actually respond to everything I said, instead of deflecting and ignoring it by saying what you did in your last line? If you don't have a decent response, just own up to it already.

No, I'm saying that there's a difference between an advantage and and unfair advantage, CCP have stated this themselves when talking about the exact same applications you are talking about. You're the one pretending I'm saying that they offer no benefit, because you're trying to suggest that if I don't want TS3 removed then I'm a hypocrite for wanting anything removed, even though there's a clear difference between the players able to take advantage of the different applications and clear difference in the level of benefit provided by them. That's the equivalent of saying that if I support the death penalty for mass murderers but don't for people who swear in public then I'm a hypocrite because I have sworn in public before.

Out of curiosity, when CCP were making this exact same distinction between ISBoxer and TS3, why were you not in there calling CCP hypocrites?

Sure you can if you want to sit ingame sing your mad socialising skills to gather trillions in donations, go nuts, that is in-game behaviour. If however you need to build a 3rd party application which then gives you a massively accelerated rate of income, you should expect to be stopped because it's pulls the game out of balance.

That's rather amusing considering you've spent most of your time not actually responding to my points but responding instead to points you have made up and pretended I've said.

Mario, I won't respond to attacks. Try keeping the discussion civil if you actually want me to read your posts.

I didn;t say they are the same thing, I said they both convey an unfair advantage using a third party tool. HEre, a really simple question. If IWI were not allowed their website, would they be able to make as much ISK as they do from donations without it?

What was that you were just saying about reductio ad absurdum? You're now suggesting that because players can tell stories in game and make ISK that it's the equivalent of someone making a third party tool to make ISK.

According to CCP when this exact same question was posed to them, no, because everyone has the same tools and the advantages are minimal. That's different from a single dude making trillions of ISK from a third party application.

When you actually make a point that isn't a response to something I've not said or want to stop with comparisons you know are ridiculous, like comparing a website that acquires trillions of isk with third party voice comms freely available to all, let me know.

Lucas, we're all terrible people and are guilty of everything they accuse us of.

There's no real need to defend or justify anything.

Also using that feature. Unfortunately like you say the poster in question is quoted quite often, as his special style of ignoring what you write and then tell you what "you really mean" rightfully agitates quite a lot of people. There is nothing like that you suddenly have to defend opinions you never had to begin with. it is almost an art... almost

This formidable, I didn't know you could do that.

Excellent.

Was scrolling down most of what he was writing anyway.

All it does is allow acquisition of isk at a faster rate than normal gameplay without that application. If the site were no longer allowed, they would not be able to achieve that same level of income, proving that it breaches that part of the EULA.

Then feel free to push for jabber to be banned if you really think it gives as unfair an advantage.

I think jabber is fine because anyone can use it if they think it is something that helps them, or make their own similar tool.
I think IWI is fine because anyone can use it if they think it is something that helps them, or make their own similar tool.

This is what a post without hypocrisy looks like.

Do you want to try to make one?

To be honest Lukas I'm giving you **** because your posting reminds me of some embarrassing posts I made when I was about 12 and used to have no idea when I had lost an argument. Like remember when you see pictures you took in 1998 and think "arggghhh **** cringe"? Yeah that's these posts.
I would just stick with it in the hopes people would give up and I could somehow not have lost the argument if I could find some semantic hook to lean on. I got better~~

Problem here, is you're too willing to make conflicting statements in the same literal post so it's a genuine mystery to me whether you don't literally see your own hypocrisy or you think your posting is good enough to hide it (it isn't).

I'll think about it later and let you know what I think would be the better outcome.