EVE General Discussion

I haven't read this thread or played Eve in...well..years, but are Goons seriously making the argument that zomg this is so unfair because someone is using out of game resources? Goons, led by a guy who hasn't logged in in...well..years, who supports his activities with a gaming website? Who tried (and failed) to create a gambling site? Who has made every possible effort to monetize his Eve notoriety and use that a position to lead an in-game coalition? Goons, who had a client hack which gave them access to very useful tools long before they existed in the official client?

Never change Goons!

But thank you for this post which is extremely interesting and insightful and from which I learned so much!

Lucas-

I admire your loyalty to your group, that's awesome. I think it's blinding you to what I'm trying to tell you though. I can't fight against spin nor do I wish to try. The prism of how you are viewing this is causing the distortion of what I'm trying to get across to you.

You are looking for mechanisms or mechanics to fight against IWI, that's not the approach I'm telling you about, it's the wrong approach entirely. As long as you keep looking there, you will not stand a chance.

My advice to you is simple, stop trying to attack IWI - regardless of their propaganda vs. Imperium propaganda - on that level. It's not a Propaganda fight other than the impact it has on player perception, which given how jaded and desperate for information (yes, normally two opposing forces) most of the player populace is, can be significant or worthless.

I don't know the Imperium leadership personally, I can't comment on what they put out, say they leak out, or otherwise say is true or not and THAT is their problem. They have so much past that is easily researched to show they can't be trusted. It's so bad that even loyal alliance mates appear to have left because of duplicity and lack of appropriate relationship reasons. The entire player base is WATCHING this unfold. It doesn't matter if it is TRUE or not, it is the prevailing perception they are fighting! That negative view cannot be countered by traditional propaganda techniques that the Imperium is currently employing.

You keep pointing out that people are buying IWI prop and ignoring Imperium prop. I'm telling you there is a reason for that. I am not a consumer of it either way, I don't really have a dog in the fight.

If you want the Imperium to go down fighting, not with ships, but to actually fight on the real war front of this war, you will find a way to smack the leadership across the face and tell them they need a 'Come to Jesus' moment, repent, repair and rebuild. Their other option would be to pack up, give everything to people that can DO that and leave the game. If that happens, Goonswarm could live on and rebuild/repair fences, and become part of the future. Their legacy would live on and such, but really, the Imperium problem is their own leadership... regardless if the propaganda about them is true or not. The perception is everything in this fight.

Lucas' rants are about as relevant to 'goon opinion' as visiting Louisiana and asking the locals about US foreign policy.
The closest you'll get to any understanding on it, is that we tried to make our own gambling site and got it badly wrong.

Nope, you're just judging my opinions based on why you think I have them. This has nothing to do with the existing war and you are free to go back along my posting history to determine that this is in fact he same opinion I've always held. I'm not looking for any way to fight IWI, in this war, I have fully accepted the fact that an application that should have been banned long ago which has allowed a character to accrue game breaking levels of income will win any war since there's no way to counter it. Hell, I'm not even in the Imperium.

I don't keep posting it, I told you once that the two examples you provided, which you claimed gave an overview of both sides were both from the same side of the war. What I'm saying is that if you are neutral you're really really bad at it.

Because the out of game app isn't acquiring the isk. Players are. Which is why IWI has bankers, they log into the game and move money around AS PLAYERS, because an automated system doing that would break the rules. The gambling site isn't gathering any isk, players are literally sending it to IWI. Do you want to remove the isk donation option from EVE? Pull a runescape and require all trades be "equal" in value?

Comparing IWI to a Market bot (or any bot) is laughable. Bots automate gameplay, if you think IWI is automating anything in game then you would have a case for it breaking the EULA.

IWI does the same thing as all the isk doublers you see in the trade hubs, its just on a larger scale and with a fancy website. They make their isk by persuading gullible players to donate them isk on a promise that they might get more isk back.

Whilst personally I would ban all gambling, fake or real everywhere on the planet if I could. It doesn't break the EULA (as long as they don't go all RMT like most of them seem to)

Which the site does not do. IWI has players who setup all the in-game transactions. Contracts, payouts, ect. All done by hand. All ingame transactions are between players, not bots ore third party programs.

Did you literally just not read any of the paragraph you quoted? I'm getting the sense that you didn't, because if you had, you wouldn't have persisted in comparing IWI (or any in-game casino) to a market bot.



You keep repeating this in such a way that you seem to be hoping you're going to shout down everyone else. Let me suggest something to you. File a formal petition to CCP to get to get casinos shut down. State your case, laying out your reading of their EULA. See what kind of answer you get, if any. Because in the end, it's not what any of us think about the issue; it's what CCP thinks. They've already investigated IWI for RMT and apparently did not find any wrongdoing, but if you believe so fervently that the situation with casinos as a whole is so unfair, it can't hurt to take a wider approach.

Surely all the IWI thing has showed is that goons, for all their blustering, didn't have the finances to fight a reasonable defence. One guy with a website was able to make enough to outclass you guys. It shows that ISK is more powerful in eve than people had thought, a sensible alliance might use it's reputation to create a investment programme that would let it skim profit from many players. It seems that to defend against these types of things properly alliances need to be focused on having the isk in their coffers to buy the allies they need.

Also the whole tactic of, let them capture whole regions in days, was not very clever. I don't know who thought that one up, all it did was build momentum and now many more people think there's a chance of wiping out goons. If you'd just formed a solid defend initially you'd have out off a lot of the people who jumped on the bandwagon

Not impossible at all, if anything you guys have proven the opposite. The CFC and it's leadership has convinced thousands of past and present players to hate them, hence the grrrgoons!

How does it go again..... Oh that's right, "We're not here to ruin the game, we're here to ruin your game".

It's like a Burn Jita event but instead it's Deklein, it's great and I for one will continue to use IWI just to contribute to it. The sooner the Goons are gone the better. It's sooooo exciting.

btw, Imperium tears are delicious to see on the forums, mmmmm scrummy.