These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

World War Bee

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2016-04-14 08:44:37 UTC
Dreiden Kisada wrote:

So, basically, the only way to have fun in this game is the way you find fun? Everyone else is wrong?

Or is it more that anything we find fun and entertaining is wrong?

Because I'll tell you what, i'm having a good time kiting people to death with Asher, and reading the forum porn of people who are so whiney about us not undocking single file to fill up our enemies' kill limit as if this was an episode of Futurama.

Why should we go down gloriously when we can just do what we've always done, and come out on top later and laugh at all the moral posts and VFK memes? Answer me this.
You have always hidden in some lowsec system trying to grind someone down?
It's my personal view on things that it is wrong just to win its more important how to win. For me a game is sport and you don't always play fair but there are some lines not to cross. And at some point you have to admit defeat and at least put up a good show. What would you think of a team that's 5 goals behind and just stops playing and reserts to just kicking ankels?

I said it's just my 2 cent.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2016-04-14 09:02:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Lucas Kell wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
And that's the problem. This is a GAME and most of us play it for FUN! But some people don't play it for fun any longer but to boost their ego. We are fighting over Bits and Bytes and they start twisting peoples arms RL? They are setting the timers to Aussie timezone? They want to win through grinding? Hey, where is the FUN?
For some people it's really not a game though. IWI is a site operating as a business using third party software to gain an advantage. At this point it's pretty much stopped being a game. It's not about players using their in-game abilities to fight each other it's about trying to figure out how to stop someone who's using untouchable third party software from picking and choosing targets to eradicate from the game while simultaneously playing with bad mechanics.

Just tell me: how many systems have you lost to IWI? And as far as I know the thing was between IWI and SMA? Are you just telling me that all players that attacked you got refunded by IWI and this is just the reason why goon is loosing? All the players flocked to the North just for the IWI money?
So you can use every dirty trick because everyone is so unfair to CFC? CFC and goon always played fair? IWI may take a part but the actual shooting and winning is done by players you can shoot down ingame.

BTW: CFC called IWIs CEO ex employee? So the next time I get killed in Null I make a research about this guy and **** up with his reallife because maybe he simply bought PLEX and a char? That's what you want for Eve to be? An excuse to mess with someones RL just about some Bits and Bytes? When do you sanction messing RL? For a single kill? Corp Sov loss? Alliance SOV loss?

Sorry but there are lines that you shouldn't cross about a game! I'm not saying that every goon is bad but you are, as a whole, responsible for such actions. It's done by your CEOs so you take part of the blame. Do YOU want someone calling your boss because he doesn't like something you did in EVE? Would you think that it's okay?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#203 - 2016-04-14 10:50:40 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
GSF used to boast one of the largest warchests in EVE, ya'll have spent years sitting in one spot literally farming isk through tech moons (they used to be the bees knees as far as moons go, no pun intended) renting, and just plain ratting. Where are all these supers and titans and dreads your leaders boasted about? A couple rich dudes paying for our SRP shouldn't be able to hold a candle to the MIGHTY IMPERIUM and their vast isk reserves. You do still have isk reserves right? They didn't walk away to pay for any boat trips or something...
A warchest earned through legitimate in-game mechanics and combined effort, not by a third party application. You can try to spin this however you want but at the end of the day you support someone using a third party application to gain a direct in-game benefit, and you do so because it's beneficial to you.

And sure, no matter what the MIGHTY IMPERIUM warchest is like, it can't be sustained through legitimate mechanics against someone who has no way of being affected by in-game activity. Congratulations IWI will be allowed to cheat and win EVE. They've successfully proven that having out of game methods of earning isk that can't be affected by players in a game allows them to win.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#204 - 2016-04-14 10:59:27 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Just tell me: how many systems have you lost to IWI? And as far as I know the thing was between IWI and SMA? Are you just telling me that all players that attacked you got refunded by IWI and this is just the reason why goon is loosing? All the players flocked to the North just for the IWI money?
So you can use every dirty trick because everyone is so unfair to CFC? CFC and goon always played fair? IWI may take a part but the actual shooting and winning is done by players you can shoot down ingame.
I'm saying that IWI is funding the war, and unlike in-game isk earning mechanics which can be attacked and affected, IWIs method of generating income is a third party application which cannot be affected by players. Inevitably no legitimate players, no matter who they are would be able to outlive their opponent if their opponent has that untouchable advantage. This is why botting and many other third party applications that give an advantage aren't allowed.

Geronimo McVain wrote:
BTW: CFC called IWIs CEO ex employee? So the next time I get killed in Null I make a research about this guy and **** up with his reallife because maybe he simply bought PLEX and a char? That's what you want for Eve to be? An excuse to mess with someones RL just about some Bits and Bytes? When do you sanction messing RL? For a single kill? Corp Sov loss? Alliance SOV loss?
First off, I've seen no proof of any of that (and the person I saw doxxing IWI was Nosy Gamer). Secondly, Mittani has dealt with personal attacks against him as a player, not as a character for several years, and you seem to have no problem with that, so why is it you're suddenly on your high horse?

Geronimo McVain wrote:
Sorry but there are lines that you shouldn't cross about a game! I'm not saying that every goon is bad but you are, as a whole, responsible for such actions. It's done by your CEOs so you take part of the blame. Do YOU want someone calling your boss because he doesn't like something you did in EVE? Would you think that it's okay?
No I wouldn't like it, neither would I like my career and life choices to be attacked on a daily basis or my photos plastered all over propaganda and attacked for things my character does. It's pretty ludicrous for you to suggest that the Imperium are the sole perpetrators of this.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Dreiden Kisada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#205 - 2016-04-14 14:24:21 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Dreiden Kisada wrote:

So, basically, the only way to have fun in this game is the way you find fun? Everyone else is wrong?

Or is it more that anything we find fun and entertaining is wrong?

Because I'll tell you what, i'm having a good time kiting people to death with Asher, and reading the forum porn of people who are so whiney about us not undocking single file to fill up our enemies' kill limit as if this was an episode of Futurama.

Why should we go down gloriously when we can just do what we've always done, and come out on top later and laugh at all the moral posts and VFK memes? Answer me this.
You have always hidden in some lowsec system trying to grind someone down?
It's my personal view on things that it is wrong just to win its more important how to win. For me a game is sport and you don't always play fair but there are some lines not to cross. And at some point you have to admit defeat and at least put up a good show. What would you think of a team that's 5 goals behind and just stops playing and reserts to just kicking ankels?

I said it's just my 2 cent.


You don't know your game history. Yes, this is how we deal with being outnumbered in our prime.

We did it when BoB pulled their "there are no goons". Ever hear of VCBees?

We conquered the other half of the galaxy when BoB had their massive superiority.

This is not some kind of new thing. This has been a regular thing for the last decade.
Ka Plaa
Doomheim
#206 - 2016-04-14 19:13:13 UTC
New backgrounds you Imperium folk are using look pretty good...but is there possibly more to the story?
http://eveion.blogspot.com/2016/04/ccp-inadvertently-leak-new-captains.html

"The Crowd Is Untruth" - Kierkegaard
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#207 - 2016-04-14 19:19:25 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
GSF used to boast one of the largest warchests in EVE, ya'll have spent years sitting in one spot literally farming isk through tech moons (they used to be the bees knees as far as moons go, no pun intended) renting, and just plain ratting. Where are all these supers and titans and dreads your leaders boasted about? A couple rich dudes paying for our SRP shouldn't be able to hold a candle to the MIGHTY IMPERIUM and their vast isk reserves. You do still have isk reserves right? They didn't walk away to pay for any boat trips or something...
A warchest earned through legitimate in-game mechanics and combined effort, not by a third party application. You can try to spin this however you want but at the end of the day you support someone using a third party application to gain a direct in-game benefit, and you do so because it's beneficial to you.

And sure, no matter what the MIGHTY IMPERIUM warchest is like, it can't be sustained through legitimate mechanics against someone who has no way of being affected by in-game activity. Congratulations IWI will be allowed to cheat and win EVE. They've successfully proven that having out of game methods of earning isk that can't be affected by players in a game allows them to win.




You're telling me GSF uses NO third party applications? None? No TS3, no POS managers, no IM clients, no forums?


Zero?

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#208 - 2016-04-14 19:26:59 UTC
You probably should just stop talking to Lucas.

He gets dug into these silly little minutiae in every thread / comment section he posts in (read: all that exist) and will run rings around himself to re-doubledown on his bad ideas.

Science has yet to determine whether he really believes what he writes or is just stuck arguing on precedent, reason long forgotten.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#209 - 2016-04-14 19:27:00 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
And sure, no matter what the MIGHTY IMPERIUM warchest is like, it can't be sustained through legitimate mechanics against someone who has no way of being affected by in-game activity. Congratulations IWI will be allowed to cheat and win EVE. They've successfully proven that having out of game methods of earning isk that can't be affected by players in a game allows them to win.


"My alliance was beaten thoroughly in a war, so the other guy obviously was cheating"

Here's a picture of the only thing saltier than your posts

http://i.imgur.com/nBz6Zys.png
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#210 - 2016-04-14 19:37:34 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
You're telling me GSF uses NO third party applications? None? No TS3, no POS managers, no IM clients, no forums?

Zero?
No, I'm saying they use no third party applications that convey a direct in-game benefit, such as how bots are banned for providing an unfair in-game benefit. You know exactly what I'm saying and you're attempting to be deliberately difficult, which is amusing since the only reason you're ding that is because you have no valid counterpoint. You know for a fact that a group or individual having an uncountable third party application that grants them income conveys an unfair benefit, but it benefits you so you're OK with it.

Isaac Armer wrote:
"My alliance was beaten thoroughly in a war, so the other guy obviously was cheating"

Here's a picture of the only thing saltier than your posts

http://i.imgur.com/nBz6Zys.png
Swing and a miss buddy. Feel free to check over my post history to confirm my opinion that IWI and similar site should not be allowed goes back to LOOOONG before this war. I, unlike some of the posters here, don't base all of my opinions on personal circumstance, I do in fact look objectively at situations like this, and objectively it's a third party application giving a direct and unfair benefit.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
#211 - 2016-04-14 19:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny ReeRee
Dreiden Kisada wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Dreiden Kisada wrote:

So, basically, the only way to have fun in this game is the way you find fun? Everyone else is wrong?

Or is it more that anything we find fun and entertaining is wrong?

Because I'll tell you what, i'm having a good time kiting people to death with Asher, and reading the forum porn of people who are so whiney about us not undocking single file to fill up our enemies' kill limit as if this was an episode of Futurama.

Why should we go down gloriously when we can just do what we've always done, and come out on top later and laugh at all the moral posts and VFK memes? Answer me this.
You have always hidden in some lowsec system trying to grind someone down?
It's my personal view on things that it is wrong just to win its more important how to win. For me a game is sport and you don't always play fair but there are some lines not to cross. And at some point you have to admit defeat and at least put up a good show. What would you think of a team that's 5 goals behind and just stops playing and reserts to just kicking ankels?

I said it's just my 2 cent.


You don't know your game history. Yes, this is how we deal with being outnumbered in our prime.

We did it when BoB pulled their "there are no goons". Ever hear of VCBees?

We conquered the other half of the galaxy when BoB had their massive superiority.

This is not some kind of new thing. This has been a regular thing for the last decade.


You don't know your game history. I don't give a crap about BoB who were led by idiots, but you vastly out-numbered them AND had help from Reds, NC and lots of other people. This current Goon mythology of "we conquered it all with rifters and our fighting spirit" is straight spin from the mouth of Mittens.

And in the end, you still didn't win until someone disbanded BoB in one swoop. And why does Mit'tani take credit for that? Haargoth Agamar did the deed, while Tamir was the Goon who brought him into the fold and was the key to it all happening.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#212 - 2016-04-14 19:46:28 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
You're telling me GSF uses NO third party applications? None? No TS3, no POS managers, no IM clients, no forums?

Zero?
No, I'm saying they use no third party applications that convey a direct in-game benefit, such as how bots are banned for providing an unfair in-game benefit. You know exactly what I'm saying and you're attempting to be deliberately difficult, which is amusing since the only reason you're ding that is because you have no valid counterpoint. You know for a fact that a group or individual having an uncountable third party application that grants them income conveys an unfair benefit, but it benefits you so you're OK with it.

Isaac Armer wrote:
"My alliance was beaten thoroughly in a war, so the other guy obviously was cheating"

Here's a picture of the only thing saltier than your posts

http://i.imgur.com/nBz6Zys.png
Swing and a miss buddy. Feel free to check over my post history to confirm my opinion that IWI and similar site should not be allowed goes back to LOOOONG before this war. I, unlike some of the posters here, don't base all of my opinions on personal circumstance, I do in fact look objectively at situations like this, and objectively it's a third party application giving a direct and unfair benefit.




TS3, IM, and forums allow for coordination that is simply NOT POSSIBLE with just in-game tools. POS managers let you know when your starbase is under attack, when it needs fuel, when reactions are done, ALL without having to actually log into the game. Fitting tools let FC's theorycraft fleet comps out of game. Trading tools highlight market openings.


Anybody can start a gambling platform. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=380793


Your team was just **** at it.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#213 - 2016-04-14 19:47:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Lucas Kell wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
You're telling me GSF uses NO third party applications? None? No TS3, no POS managers, no IM clients, no forums?

Zero?
No, I'm saying they use no third party applications that convey a direct in-game benefit, such as how bots are banned for providing an unfair in-game benefit. You know exactly what I'm saying and you're attempting to be deliberately difficult, which is amusing since the only reason you're ding that is because you have no valid counterpoint. You know for a fact that a group or individual having an uncountable third party application that grants them income conveys an unfair benefit, but it benefits you so you're OK with it.

Isaac Armer wrote:
"My alliance was beaten thoroughly in a war, so the other guy obviously was cheating"

Here's a picture of the only thing saltier than your posts

http://i.imgur.com/nBz6Zys.png
Swing and a miss buddy. Feel free to check over my post history to confirm my opinion that IWI and similar site should not be allowed goes back to LOOOONG before this war. I, unlike some of the posters here, don't base all of my opinions on personal circumstance, I do in fact look objectively at situations like this, and objectively it's a third party application giving a direct and unfair benefit.


How can you have been in The Imperium for more than 48hours without an understanding that we use out-of-game means to leverage an absolutely overwhelming advantage in game?
Are you trolling or are you so stuck on your own argument you can't see this?

Example: I want to make loads of money importing with no effort. Better only do it in game! Or, I guess I could use goonmetrics?
Example: I want to optimize my hauling stuff. In game? No - I use GARPA
Example: I want to flash-form 1200 nerds to come protect my in-game objective. Do I sit in chat channels dropping fleet invites? No, I send out a ping that goes to laptops / desktops and mobile phones around the globe.

Arguing 'out of game' advantages are unfair when you are sitting on a massive pile of them is woefully hypocritical, and conveniently drawing a line to exclude all those as 'OK' but demonise the one that you don't have is just poor behaviour.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#214 - 2016-04-14 19:47:32 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Swing and a miss buddy. Feel free to check over my post history to confirm my opinion that IWI and similar site should not be allowed goes back to LOOOONG before this war. I, unlike some of the posters here, don't base all of my opinions on personal circumstance, I do in fact look objectively at situations like this, and objectively it's a third party application giving a direct and unfair benefit.


"you look objectively at situations"

right, so you're against ALL 3rd party apps that help people in game then? Yes or no please. You wouldn't be hypocritical about this, would you?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#215 - 2016-04-14 20:01:05 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
TS3, IM, and forums allow for coordination that is simply NOT POSSIBLE with just in-game tools. POS managers let you know when your starbase is under attack, when it needs fuel, when reactions are done, ALL without having to actually log into the game. Fitting tools let FC's theorycraft fleet comps out of game. Trading tools highlight market openings.
First off, you are wrong. EVE voice, chat channels and mailing lists all allow this coordination. Secondly, CCP have already stated that those applications don't provide what they consider an in-game benefit as they don't allow you to do or gain anything in game at an accelerated rate compared to normal gameplay. IWI clearly does.

Once again though, thank's for desperately trying to throw up strawman arguments thus adding further validation to my points.

Isaac Armer wrote:
"you look objectively at situations"

right, so you're against ALL 3rd party apps that help people in game then? Yes or no please. You wouldn't be hypocritical about this, would you?
If it allows you to gain at an accelerated rate to normal gameplay or provides a direct in-game benefit with no counter, yes. I have a feeling I know where you're going with this and you're going to be pretty sad if you haven't done your homework right.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#216 - 2016-04-14 20:03:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Khanh'rhh wrote:
How can you have been in The Imperium for more than 48hours without an understanding that we use out-of-game means to leverage an absolutely overwhelming advantage in game?
Are you trolling or are you so stuck on your own argument you can't see this?

Example: I want to make loads of money importing with no effort. Better only do it in game! Or, I guess I could use goonmetrics?
Example: I want to optimize my hauling stuff. In game? No - I use GARPA
Example: I want to flash-form 1200 nerds to come protect my in-game objective. Do I sit in chat channels dropping fleet invites? No, I send out a ping that goes to laptops / desktops and mobile phones around the globe.

Arguing 'out of game' advantages are unfair when you are sitting on a massive pile of them is woefully hypocritical, and conveniently drawing a line to exclude all those as 'OK' but demonise the one that you don't have is just poor behaviour.
Those and similar tools have already been vetted by CCP and deemed to not provide a direct in-game benefit to the rate of item or currency acquisition. There's many I disagree with that they've OKed including ones I use. EVE-O preview for example provides a massive benefit yet is explicitly allowed despite my protests and so gets used. It's not my fault if you're reading this thread and assuming it's my only opinion.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#217 - 2016-04-14 20:07:37 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Those and similar tools have already been vetted by CCP and deemed to not provide a direct in-game benefit to the rate of item or currency acquisition. There's many I disagree with that they've OKed including once I use. EVE-O preview for example provides a massive benefit yet is explicitly allowed despite my protests and so gets used. It's not my fault if you're reading this thread and assuming it's my only opinion.

IWI and similar sites have already been vetted by CCP and deemed to not break the rules.

You can walk around this all day; there's simply no pre-text other than "I don't like it" at play here.
You're grossly over-reaching, even for you.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#218 - 2016-04-14 20:09:10 UTC
You're also misquoting the EULA to try to make it sound like it supports you. "ISK generation at an accelerated pace" refers to means of exploiting in-game systems to (surprise) generate more ISK than normal.

Making a website to convince people to simply hand over their ISK doesn't generate anything.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#219 - 2016-04-14 20:09:10 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
If it allows you to gain at an accelerated rate to normal gameplay or provides a direct in-game benefit with no counter, yes. I have a feeling I know where you're going with this and you're going to be pretty sad if you haven't done your homework right.


If it lets you accelerate your rate of gameplay you are against it. Got it. So you are against TS3, zkillboard, ETF, evemon, evedroid and out of game pings for corps/allinaces then?
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#220 - 2016-04-14 20:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Aiwha
Lucas Kell wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
How can you have been in The Imperium for more than 48hours without an understanding that we use out-of-game means to leverage an absolutely overwhelming advantage in game?
Are you trolling or are you so stuck on your own argument you can't see this?

Example: I want to make loads of money importing with no effort. Better only do it in game! Or, I guess I could use goonmetrics?
Example: I want to optimize my hauling stuff. In game? No - I use GARPA
Example: I want to flash-form 1200 nerds to come protect my in-game objective. Do I sit in chat channels dropping fleet invites? No, I send out a ping that goes to laptops / desktops and mobile phones around the globe.

Arguing 'out of game' advantages are unfair when you are sitting on a massive pile of them is woefully hypocritical, and conveniently drawing a line to exclude all those as 'OK' but demonise the one that you don't have is just poor behaviour.
Those and similar tools have already been vetted by CCP and deemed to not provide a direct in-game benefit to the rate of item or currency acquisition. There's many I disagree with that they've OKed including ones I use. EVE-O preview for example provides a massive benefit yet is explicitly allowed despite my protests and so gets used. It's not my fault if you're reading this thread and assuming it's my only opinion.




Which IWI has also been vetted by CCP and deemed not to provide a direct in-game benefit! They said that gambling sites are okay as long as they follow certain rules and guidelines which IWI does indeed follow since they don't want to get somerblink'd.




Khanh'rhh wrote:


How can you have been in The Imperium for more than 48hours without an understanding that we use out-of-game means to leverage an absolutely overwhelming advantage in game?
Are you trolling or are you so stuck on your own argument you can't see this?

Example: I want to make loads of money importing with no effort. Better only do it in game! Or, I guess I could use goonmetrics?
Example: I want to optimize my hauling stuff. In game? No - I use GARPA
Example: I want to flash-form 1200 nerds to come protect my in-game objective. Do I sit in chat channels dropping fleet invites? No, I send out a ping that goes to laptops / desktops and mobile phones around the globe.

Arguing 'out of game' advantages are unfair when you are sitting on a massive pile of them is woefully hypocritical, and conveniently drawing a line to exclude all those as 'OK' but demonise the one that you don't have is just poor behaviour.



I see why goons aren't shedding any tears over SMA going to OR to die.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.