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Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#1481 - 2016-04-13 19:15:31 UTC
Invisusira wrote:
EVE is in a fantastic spot right now. More content and more activity than ever before. I've never been happier to be playing this game. So it's not lightly that I say ****. RIGHT. OFF. WITH. THIS.

Dailies exemplify everything that EVE is not.

  • Play whenever you want! Thanks to the time-based skill system, there are no commitments! (oops, not anymore!)
  • Play however you want! PvE, PvP, Industry, Mining, In-station trading, it's all equally valuable! (oops, not anymore!)

EVE is a sandbox. Dailies do not belong here. **** off with this slippery slope garbage.


It actually has less activity than the historical average. Still you nailed the other points.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1482 - 2016-04-13 19:17:55 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


We may discuss whether it's bullshit or don't, but there's one deeper layer into it: lower PCU (which is real) is toxic to EVE and CCP. Enough toxic to lead CCP into taking a controversial step to bribe players into becoming/providing content by just loggin in and being exposed to the sandbox..

Regardless of if the PCU issue is true, 5 minutes of login is not going to significantly add to the concurrent PCU which is the count that players get to see. It may affect the unique logins per day but that is a hidden statistic that only CCP can see how many Players, and Players is the important statistic not accounts, are logged in per day.
Daily kill one NPC quests do not add content to the game in a significant manner, and they do not add significant engagement for the player. And they go directly against the 'EVE doesn't have an SP grind' selling point, not to mention making fools of everyone who claimed that Sp injectors were not the start of a slippery slope, because this right here is the next part of the slippery slope mere months later.


Not to mention weer know ccp was blatantly dishonest with us when they said training would be the only way to get sp fir the injector because this was in the works when they posted that

So at the very least we know they don't respect is enough to tell us the truth

Tinfoil hat EDIT
Also this is kinda big yet there is not even a hint that a dev blog will be put out anytime soon. It's almost like ccp doesn't want to be called out for sneaking thus in but they also don't want the majority of eve to know about it yet

I'm pretty sure, CCP Rise didn't know about this plans when he posted his devblog. This is different than the originally announced tribute system. Now he looks like an idiot, 50% because of this business decision and 50% because his team didn't come up with a better idea to increase PCU.

But I agree, hiding unpopular announcements in long threads or on reddit is a thing recently ... where is the devblog about the upcoming NPC trading fee increase and the "PvP tax"?


Even if he didn't know some one at ccp did and it should have been caught off they didn't want to look so shady

To be honest this and how they are avoid making things like this as public as possible shows to me that they know it's not something that players will be happy with but they don't care

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#1483 - 2016-04-13 19:18:40 UTC
If they add this at least i'll have the time to concentrate on Star Citizen.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1484 - 2016-04-13 19:20:47 UTC
Well.... erm.... **** it. I'll take 10k free SP every day just for killing a belt rat in a noob ship.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Mornak
Exotic Dancers Union
Hatakani Trade Winds Combine
#1485 - 2016-04-13 19:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mornak
I'm not opposed to this in general, i actually like the basic idea quite a lot. As a small/solo pvper i welcome anything that makes people undock. But I agree with the raised concerns that 10k a day is quite a lot. The main problem I have with this idea though is that you profit most if you log in 7d/week... that's just not realistic (and not healthy either, let's be honest).


Therefore I personally would set it to 10k/day with a maximum/cap of 20k/week (maybe 30k).


If, as a newbro, you are almost 'forced' to log in every day, it will be a bit much (10k is really a lot for a <5-10m SP character!). Playing one single game 7 days a week is more than unrealistic, some would call it madness.
2-3 times/days a week is much more reasonable and, given the required time to kill a rat, a reasonable amount. Everything above that is everyone's personal choice, but a game should not ask for more than that. I also do not believe that the 7d/w approach will create any more revenue for ccp than the 2-3d/w version.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1486 - 2016-04-13 19:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The fact that a bunch of wakka wakka wakka

The fact that you must insult people just to try to mount a feeble defence against a very blatant attempt to force people to log in does not make it any less forced, nor does it make the excuse any less pathetic. Quite the opposite.

Again: just because you have a choice does not mean you're not being forced. You even explained yourself why it qualifies as forcing them. And yet, you are making up excuses for CCP dictating player behaviour; for CCP forcing players to engage in the worst gameplay EVE has to offer. You can try to rephrase it any way you like, but it doesn't change what they're doing.
Animorpheus Aven
Legion of Anarchy
#1487 - 2016-04-13 19:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Animorpheus Aven
I would like to see the system much improved before implementation.

Some personal pro vs con list.
Pro
- Does increase my sp intake significantly, especially because I hardly use implants... When I pvp, i go all in and almost always rather want to be podded than flying all the way back.

Con
- I log in almost exclusively in the weekends to play the game. So having to do these tasks, on a week-day, would mostly seem as choir to me. It would not provide any more personal benefit, as I wouldn't do anything else than exactly that task, and then log off.
- If I don't have the time to do a task, then I would have the feeling of "missing out", which is absolutely a negative experience.
- I do not feel this fits the Eve Lore in any way.
- The game is sandbox, and I have the feeling you are implicit forcing me to play the game, even when I don't want to. Which may be risking to burn me out.
- The tasks, for now, seems quite boring. I will constantly have to outweigh on how much i bother to play Eve today.
- From personal experience with; WoW, Hearthstone & Heroes of the Storm, the dailies quickly led to boring and repetitive gameplay. It became a grind, and didn't lead to anything meaningful.

Ideas for solutions:
- Do not make it a daily, maybe weekly. Not a big fan, but I could consider that a compromise.
- Expand on the task list significantly
- Create meaningful tasks or something fun and unique (look at hearthstone with their weekly tavern brawls). They found an amazing way to engage players.
- Make sure it has something to do with the lore!!!!

Best regards Animorpheus Aven
ps. Thanks for all the great moments this game has given us.
Take a moment and remember what the average player's age in Eve is, and then see if that age actually applies to the game mechanic you are trying to introduce.


CCP Rise wrote:
Hi

I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel.

As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like.

You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available.

That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later!

Feedback appreciate as always,
CCP Rise for Team Size Matters

Responding to feedback
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1488 - 2016-04-13 19:24:41 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Pupinia Stewart wrote:
Phew, thank god I unsubbed before I added another 6 months to my account.
Off to Elite: Dangerous!

See you at Sag A* — don't forget to pack extra heat sinks. P

Frostys Virpio wrote:
You will still be able to play when you want and how you want. You just…
…get penalised for doing so. You can stop the charade and the pathetic excuses — you know full well that this is what they're doing.


The fact that a bunch of entitled babies can't see that they have a choice and instead feel forced to do something is not a pathetic excuse. I would not introduce something like that but I also understand that there are no penalty involved. Your sub does not entitle you to all the possible SP anymore. Some of it will have be be "earned" in a stupid way. That's all there is to it. If you feel forced to do it, seek help because the issue is in your head.


So the motivation here is to give everyone extra sp for no reason, not artificially force people to login and do X even if they weren't planning to, right?


Nope. They want you to log-in and do something and for that, they are willing to give you a gift. If you don't do it, you can still play however you want whenever you want. It is clearly identified that it is intended to make us log-in more often but you can still either not log in if you don't feel like it or not kill a rat even if logged in if you don't feel like killing a rat. They want more log-ins and know they have no way to FORCE you to do so unless they go with drastic measure like cancelling your subs if you fail to log-in. On the other hand, they can definitely hang a carrot ahead of you and give it to your on their condition. If you don't want the carrot, nothing bad happen to you as apposed to a forced system where something bad would happen to you if you failed to meet the requirement.
Erihn Sabrovich
#1489 - 2016-04-13 19:25:42 UTC
wurstsalat wrote:

You were proven wrong by many alliances, just to take the biggest example, BRAVE. Literally a 2 week old character or whatever who recruited all the newbies and said "Let's go" and they proceeded to play with the big guys. Now they are part of the war against the biggest former coalition. Don't tell people that newbeans can't make a difference, because that's simply lying, 200 people in thrashers which take like 1 week to train at most can do a lot of damage, and if you can maintain a standing fleet of 200 thrashers you can own sov easily and generate a lot of content for everyone.

None of what you say makes sense. Stop spouting bullshit. It's clear you don't know anything about this game.


Your hypocrisy make me laugh...

You're speaking about 200 trashers aligned by some new players alliance... For a "normal" alliance, although it's possible, it's not very probable... but Powerblocks are on another scale...

Battle at B-R5RB was more than 7500 pilots involved, including ships from the frigate to the titans... Well, most battle don't go to such epic levels, but it remains that the scales are totally different... That's what makes them powerblocks...

Powerblocks can quite easily bring an handful of capitals to support the other ships should such a fleet of 200 trasher come...

I was part of a powerblock in another game, I do know how these can be organized... And, although it was fun for us... it was way less fun for the other (not in powerblock). We were raiding whole galaxies each days... and the only who'd bring some decent defense against us were those affiliated to other powerblocks... The game was different but the powerblock mechanics and politics were the same...

For another example, how many Moons R64 controlled by other alliances than those belonging to powerblock ? Nearly none... But... you just said that normal players/alliances can stand against powerblocks...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1490 - 2016-04-13 19:27:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The fact that a bunch of wakka wakka wakka

The fact that you must insult people just to try to mount a feeble defence against a very blatant attempt to force people to log in does not make it any less forced, nor does it make the excuse any less pathetic. Quite the opposite.

Again: just because you have a choice does not mean you're not being forced. You even explained yourself why it qualifies as forcing them. And yet, you are making up excuses for CCP dictating player behaviour; for CCP forcing players to engage in the worst gameplay EVE has to offer. You can try to rephrase it any way you like, but it doesn't change what they're doing.


Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity, you will not be forced to do so. No matter how you feel about it, they haven't even hinted at any form of punishment so your argument of being punished is garbage but you can keep pushing it all you want. You don't get punished for being wrong here.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1491 - 2016-04-13 19:31:10 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Well.... erm.... **** it. I'll take 10k free SP every day just for killing a belt rat in a noob ship.


When a dealer offers you a free sample is never a good idea to take it

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1492 - 2016-04-13 19:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The fact that a bunch of wakka wakka wakka

The fact that you must insult people just to try to mount a feeble defence against a very blatant attempt to force people to log in does not make it any less forced, nor does it make the excuse any less pathetic. Quite the opposite.

Again: just because you have a choice does not mean you're not being forced. You even explained yourself why it qualifies as forcing them. And yet, you are making up excuses for CCP dictating player behaviour; for CCP forcing players to engage in the worst gameplay EVE has to offer. You can try to rephrase it any way you like, but it doesn't change what they're doing.


Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity, you will not be forced to do so. No matter how you feel about it, they haven't even hinted at any form of punishment so your argument of being punished is garbage but you can keep pushing it all you want. You don't get punished for being wrong here.


If players feel like they are being punished then they are being punished

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1493 - 2016-04-13 19:36:22 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The fact that a bunch of wakka wakka wakka

The fact that you must insult people just to try to mount a feeble defence against a very blatant attempt to force people to log in does not make it any less forced, nor does it make the excuse any less pathetic. Quite the opposite.

Again: just because you have a choice does not mean you're not being forced. You even explained yourself why it qualifies as forcing them. And yet, you are making up excuses for CCP dictating player behaviour; for CCP forcing players to engage in the worst gameplay EVE has to offer. You can try to rephrase it any way you like, but it doesn't change what they're doing.


Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity, you will not be forced to do so. No matter how you feel about it, they haven't even hinted at any form of punishment so your argument of being punished is garbage but you can keep pushing it all you want. You don't get punished for being wrong here.


Of players feel like they are being punished then they are being punished


If CCP offered 10k SP for deleting every single one asset you have access to, you would feel punished for not doing it?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1494 - 2016-04-13 19:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Nope. They want you to log-in and do something and for that, they are willing to
…give you something that cannot be had in any other way: time. In order to get this unique and incomparably valuable commodity, you are forced to engage in an activity that serves absolutely no other purpose.

Quote:
They want more log-ins and know they have no way to FORCE you to do so unless they go with drastic measure like cancelling your subs if you fail to log-in.

Yes they do. They even acknowledge that they do, but that they removed the other way(s) and want to institute this nonsense to make up for that mistake. Because they're CCP, and they don't change their mind just because they decided something that they admit was a bad idea. Even if for some inconceivable or irrational reason they refuse to fix the error they made, they could still take this abortion and turn it into something sensible to get to their old numbers. They have tons of ways of making people log in more often without actually forcing them, and they know this. They're just lazy and choose the most idiotic and abusive method instead: by force, because at least then they aren't changing their minds.

And for what? To inflate a stat they knowingly — even deliberately — deflated, and then spent months trying to argue wasn't a good metric for how active the game was. Now, all of a sudden, they're desperate to get that metric back up again by any short-sighted means necessary, but without somehow admitting that the deflation was bad or the decision behind doing so should be reversed. Lol

Quote:
Your are dense and that is the problem. Unless CCP start handing out punishment for not doing the activity
You have no argument, and that is entirely your problem. If you had one, you wouldn't have to resort to these pathetic fallacies.

CCP is handing out punishment for not doing the activity: they're reducing your training time from something on the order of 28–30 hours per day to a mere 24 (or, if you're not comfortable with the thought of a 28-hour day, to 18–20 hours rather than 24). Every day you refuse to do what they want, you lose somewhere between ¼ and ⅙ of that day compared to those who comply. Do it for a year, and you've lost three months. If you don't see the punishment for non-conformance in this, you need to wake up.

Quote:
If CCP offered 10k SP for deleting every single one asset you have access to, you would feel punished for not doing it?
At that point, there's opportunity for an actual reasonable choice to exist.
Huckomi G'Noo
Sadistic Mika's Noodles
#1495 - 2016-04-13 19:46:42 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Well, a hint for that feature was available a while ago on the very. useful. and. always. true. updates site.



WoW - Sometime in the future I may be able to buy SP direct from Concord as apparently they have a stockpile of them - who knew
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1496 - 2016-04-13 19:51:29 UTC
Huckomi G'Noo wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Well, a hint for that feature was available a while ago on the very. useful. and. always. true. updates site.



WoW - Sometime in the future I may be able to buy SP direct from Concord as apparently they have a stockpile of them - who knew


at this rate we should be able to expect just buying 100, 200 and 300 mill sp characters right from ccp

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1497 - 2016-04-13 19:54:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Nope. They want you to log-in and do something and for that, they are willing to
…give you something that cannot be had in any other way: time. In order to get this unique and incomparably valuable commodity, you are forced to engage in an activity that serves absolutely no other purpose.



Injectors?

You can also wait and get those 10k SP over time anyway.

Buying a character off the bazar?

The SP are still only keys to unlock access to stuff and you get keys over time. If you are on a rush, there are options to skip the waiting. One of them include in-game risk (implants) while others usually involve ingame or out of game money. (Character bazaar and injectors) It's like the old clone problem except you get a reward for doing the universally "good" choice of killing rat while the clone used to punish you for choosing the "wrong" option. They both are terrible implementation but one is punitive by setting you back when you fail it while the other push your forward for doing good. Deleting your SP for failing to have an upgrade close was a punishment. You were losing something. This don't make you lose anything in it's current planified implementation. That's what I've been saying. It's not a punishment because there are no negative result for you. You still can do all you could do and still have all you had before even if you fail it.

All your SP are still there. Your game time is still intact. Your assets still belong to you. Your account is still active. Your sec status is still as it were before. Your wallet is not wiped. Your pod is not moved in a WH alone. You are not punished.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1498 - 2016-04-13 19:58:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Injectors?
Do not create time.

Quote:
Buying a character off the bazar?
Does not create time.

Quote:
Deleting your SP for failing to have an upgrade close was a punishment. You were losing something.
And by reducing your day from 24 hours to 18, you are losing something: time. You are being punished for your non-conformance by losing time. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp, and it is not very difficult to see how they could easily get the result they want without this submoronic strategy — all they have to do is accept that they mad a bad decision, change their mind, and reverse the error they made.

…and that's before we even get creative and suggest they do some actual development work.
Huckomi G'Noo
Sadistic Mika's Noodles
#1499 - 2016-04-13 20:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Huckomi G'Noo
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Huckomi G'Noo wrote:
Darkblad wrote:
Well, a hint for that feature was available a while ago on the very. useful. and. always. true. updates site.



WoW - Sometime in the future I may be able to buy SP direct from Concord as apparently they have a stockpile of them - who knew


at this rate we should be able to expect just buying 100, 200 and 300 mill sp characters right from ccp



If we assume the SP Concord have gathered are "SP" from the wastage inherent in the use of Injectors though a system with built in diminishing returns - surely the reverse should apply.

I say :
A newbie gets 20% of the reward - as new and eager player does not need more incentive to log in
An 80mill SP Toon gets 100% - bitter and disillusion vets need a lot more incentive
Arcturus Ursidae
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1500 - 2016-04-13 20:12:09 UTC
Thrill of the hunt completed.

Did this on an alt, old character never had a skill queue, what I had not realised is that without the training certificate thing you can't even access the skill queue, but you can still apply points directly. Gunnery 3 less than 10,000 skill points. Woot woot.

The interface is ok I guess, bit bland not exactly engaging. Will there be more background to this? A news story etc, would be nice to see more lore about this, I am really not a big fan of the somewhat sterile opportunities interface.

The timer is annoying, many will view it as a minor issue I guess but it will play on my mind log in earlier to play when time is available and then log in later to get the skill points but not really play.

Again this.

"If this has to happen the 22hr timer has to go.

Anytime from down time to downtime at least please."