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Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#1201 - 2016-04-12 07:12:32 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.


Then perhaps CCP needs to look at what makes people not wanting to log into game in the first place? I can tell you that from personal experience sometimes I run out of ideas to do stuff in EVE. What left then is scripted and very dull and plain activities aka missions, can hacking, ect. Then for people who have enough or just dont care about ISK have basicly no incentive to log in after they entered "cool down on ideas" phase. Reason I am against dailies is simply because in the long run they will burn out player. Sometimes to point that they will just not going to log in no matter what incentive and leave the game. Because in the end. Playing game for fun and giggles isnt thats all what games should be? And if game simply isnt fun then perhaps working on that should be focus and not on carrot that will keep that horse running for another mile.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1202 - 2016-04-12 07:15:32 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
True as that may be.

Think of what Eve would be like if CCP found a way to appeal to the general and largest game playing market, the 14 to 20 year old's.
Opportunities and the such (dailies) are not much more than marketing tools used by companies to attract not only existing players to log in but new players to join in.


SWG tried to target that group and lost 90% of their population in months. That group doesn't exist and changing core concepts of the game to try and chase them will only alienate the current players.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1203 - 2016-04-12 07:20:01 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:



No I'm not, how did you come to that conclusion? I think that logging once per day to kill a single NPC is a grinding chore and just because I'm okay with CCP rewarding people who log in everyday doesn't mean that I wouldn't prefer if this system was done in a way that doesn't reward menial tasks.
And people who are not logged on play the game? LOL - maybe in few rare cases, like coalition leaders. It's the number of logged players that keeps the game alive, not the number of someone's forum posts. Just like people who mererly play skill queue online don't contribute anything to the game.


How will the thousands of supercap and titan pilots get this sp "reward" every day?
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#1204 - 2016-04-12 07:23:35 UTC
Without going through 1202 posts, has this stupid idea been reversed yet?

Didn't we just recently get rid of the previous 'log in everyday or fall behind in SP' feature, the 24 hour skill queue limit? And now some fool wants to bring it back?

If you want an incentive to get people to log in to do PVE (which isn't a bad idea in itself), how about converting your highest bounty tick for the day into bonus CONCORD LP via some calculation? That will be an incentive to undock a PVE ship daily without being a 'Play EVE this way, or fall behind' mechanic.

Maybe not CONCORD, but maybe LP that are suited to the area of space you were ratting in. That might be even better.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Erihn Sabrovich
#1205 - 2016-04-12 07:31:43 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours.
Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business.
Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in.


The problem is that players DON'T CREATE content...

Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content...

New content is about
- new ships
- new structures
- new modules (or module changes)
- new game mechanics
- new missions
- new exploration sites
...

To have players creating content in a sandbox, you'd need to have people able to upload textures, 3D models, to create items, ... (a little like what you can find in "2nd life" or in the old MUSH/MUX games).

I think that new content (not only for high-level players/corps, but also for people ranging from the miner to the PvE solo'er) would be the best idea to get people login... Way better than dailies... Somehow, the only people who don't really care about content are the PvP'er... they only need targets... But EVE's mechanics are such that other people are required (else PvP'ers would fall short of ships/modules).

Mixing active and passive character development is not really a problem... As some older players already pointed, SP are not so important... But I think that there should really be enough way to get SP to be sure that people WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THEM ALL... If there is only one way, which only requires little time daily (or weekly,...), people may feel compelled to do it... If they are no way to do them all, people will do what they want... There may be some crazy people who will try to "optimize" by doing all of them... but they won't be the common case.

1 rat daily is not a bad idea... Miners can do it, explorer can do it, PvE'er can do it (they both already do it), PvP'er can do it, beginners and older players can do it, ... the only people which would have to get out of their ways are traders, industrialists and scammers...

But I think that there should be many other ways... why not include things like T2 research, jumping in at least X systems, starting at least X jobs (or having at least X different production task running), scanning X signatures and many other things... As I said, there should be enough of these to be sure that a single character can't do them all...
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
#1206 - 2016-04-12 07:35:44 UTC
Rain6639 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec


not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom

dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes.


You wouldn't have to chase entosis nodes if the FW system was implemented in sov null.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1207 - 2016-04-12 07:38:15 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Okay, let's see if I can provide some context for our decision to add daily opportunities to eve and maybe answer some of your bigger questions.

Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.


At the time the skillqueue was introduced, CCP said, quite correctly in my opinion, that they wanted to make EVE a game that peeople logged in to because they wanted to, not because they'd lose out on skillpoints if they didn't.

Evidently this ambition has now been abandoned. What a shame.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1208 - 2016-04-12 07:38:16 UTC
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:


New content is about
- new ships
- new structures
- new modules (or module changes)
- new game mechanics
...


That's tools not contentšŸ˜‰
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1209 - 2016-04-12 07:39:23 UTC
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
This whole thing will end in XP/SP grind soon. One step at a time. First SP trading, now rewards for logging. Next step xp boost for playing at least 3 hours.
Let's face it. Players are creating content in sandbox (if EvE is still sandbox?). If they are not online because they passively gaining XP/SP it's bad for the business.
Problem is if game is not entertaning there is not enough high reward to encourage players to log in.


The problem is that players DON'T CREATE content...

Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content...

New content is about
- new ships
- new structures
- new modules (or module changes)
- new game mechanics
- new missions
- new exploration sites
...

To have players creating content in a sandbox, you'd need to have people able to upload textures, 3D models, to create items, ... (a little like what you can find in "2nd life" or in the old MUSH/MUX games).

I think that new content (not only for high-level players/corps, but also for people ranging from the miner to the PvE solo'er) would be the best idea to get people login... Way better than dailies... Somehow, the only people who don't really care about content are the PvP'er... they only need targets... But EVE's mechanics are such that other people are required (else PvP'ers would fall short of ships/modules).

Mixing active and passive character development is not really a problem... As some older players already pointed, SP are not so important... But I think that there should really be enough way to get SP to be sure that people WON'T BE ABLE TO DO THEM ALL... If there is only one way, which only requires little time daily (or weekly,...), people may feel compelled to do it... If they are no way to do them all, people will do what they want... There may be some crazy people who will try to "optimize" by doing all of them... but they won't be the common case.

1 rat daily is not a bad idea... Miners can do it, explorer can do it, PvE'er can do it (they both already do it), PvP'er can do it, beginners and older players can do it, ... the only people which would have to get out of their ways are traders, industrialists and scammers...

But I think that there should be many other ways... why not include things like T2 research, jumping in at least X systems, starting at least X jobs (or having at least X different production task running), scanning X signatures and many other things... As I said, there should be enough of these to be sure that a single character can't do them all...


Poe's law is hitting so hard with this post
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1210 - 2016-04-12 07:40:10 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec


not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom

dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes.


You wouldn't have to chase entosis nodes if the FW system was implemented in sov null.


... yes I would i just wouldn't have to put an entosis on my ship
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
#1211 - 2016-04-12 07:41:54 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Rain6639 wrote:
my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec


not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom

dude. how do you think I feel about chasing entosis nodes.


You wouldn't have to chase entosis nodes if the FW system was implemented in sov null.


... yes I would i just wouldn't have to put an entosis on my ship


The FW system has a proven track record. It works, and thousands of people engage in it willingly every day. There are no downsides to implementing it in null.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1212 - 2016-04-12 07:43:56 UTC
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content...

Then you have no idea what sandbox means. World War Bee is biggest player created content in months.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Lugh Crow-Slave
#1213 - 2016-04-12 07:48:52 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:


The FW system has a proven track record. It works, and thousands of people engage in it willingly every day. There are no downsides to implementing it in null.


The only difference is it forces me to use a mixed fleet rather than rewarding that I do and the system is always vulnerable
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1214 - 2016-04-12 07:49:37 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
Some player groupe organizing a PvP raid is no content...

Then you have no idea what sandbox means. World War Bee is biggest player created content in months.


No no you see that's no content it's just players doing things
Charles Surge
VULSI
#1215 - 2016-04-12 07:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Charles Surge
The reward should be on log-in, especially since the "tribute" system will be removed from "daily" stuff.

Many insanely active players do not shoot rats.

Also: Current test server implementation has no feedback on where players are on the 22-hour cycle. This will be frustrating guessing where you are on the timer, going out of your way to kill a rat, then finding out you were not yet valid for another round of "daily reward".
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1216 - 2016-04-12 07:54:55 UTC
Is there a mechanism that will log off inactive players from the server? Like in D3, 15 minutes AFK and log off.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Lugh Crow-Slave
#1217 - 2016-04-12 07:56:39 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Is there a mechanism that will log off inactive players from the server? Like in D3, 15 minutes AFK and log off.


God those ate some of the most irritating things in games
Tomika
Doomheim
#1218 - 2016-04-12 07:57:34 UTC
All these posts even though CCP is just gonna go ahead and implement the changes anyway Lol
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1219 - 2016-04-12 07:59:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
How will the thousands of supercap and titan pilots get this sp "reward" every day?

In style
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#1220 - 2016-04-12 08:00:20 UTC
Tomika wrote:
All these posts even though CCP is just gonna go ahead and implement the changes anyway Lol

Then we can just point back to all these posts as our reason for quitting.