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Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#1161 - 2016-04-11 23:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Esna Pitoojee
There is no part of this that sounds rewarding and enjoyable to participate in. I come to EVE to sit back and do what I like (or not), which this idea seems to run directly contrary to.

The difference between this and the daily achievements in many other games is that they offer a variety of options for things to do in order to get your rewards. Achievements which reward you for naturally playing as you normally would are good; achievements which reward you for being shoehorned into a particular variety of activity are not.
Jediseah Tophet
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#1162 - 2016-04-11 23:34:18 UTC
I don't like the low bar for entry and/or the frequency of the activity. Having multiple goals achieved over a week might sound much more reasonable IMO than forcing a player to have to do a certain activity daily.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#1163 - 2016-04-11 23:34:26 UTC
Ok, so let's look at what this will do. Assuming the rewards aren't significant enough to break the game, it's about player behavior. It's about getting people to log in every day because they have something to gain for doing so. If everyone stands to gain the same thing, anyone who doesn't do the activity falls behind everyone else and their own potential. So really even if it's not "required" it will create a feeling of having to do it to avoid losing out.

So, how do people react to feeling like they need to do something whether they want to or not? They grow to hate the activity. Do you want people to hate logging in and doing stuff? For a short while it may be exciting and invoke thoughts of "yay bonus!" but soon it will feel like a job and people will either suffer through it for the reward while hating every moment, or not do it and feel like they're constantly falling behind.

Making players do something they hate or fall behind everyone else is not healthy. Like for me personally, I'm kind of burnt out on Eve and annoyed by a bunch of recent changes that I'm not too find of, but the plan was to keep the skills training and not play quite as much while recovering. If a mechanic like this were introduced where my characters would continually fall behind in training even with a perfect remap and set of +5s, there's no reason to keep the subscriptions going when I could just unsub and switch to other games that don't pretend to be jobs.
Armark Bether
NRDS Anonyme
We're all going to die.
#1164 - 2016-04-11 23:34:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Armark Bether
I'm 110% against that feature, I don't want to have to log daily or virtually lose 6 hours of training/day missed. In my opinion, games should never force you, even gently, to log every day. Once every few days would be OK especially in EVE, but not daily. There are days where I simply can't log in, let alone undock and kill a rat.

Plus, what I really liked in EVE was the fact that your character grows regardless to your dedication to the game (even if your wealth and social connections does not). How many times did I show a MMO to a friend, only to find that he outleveled and outgeared my 60-days old char in a week ?
I know that this is just some collateral damage from the choice of SP as a reward, but still.

I'd be totally OK though if this had either smaller rewards (~5k SP, less significant but not negligible) or bigger rewards with bigger time intervals, like 30k SP in 72 hours intervals (not with a timer, the requirement being to log once in a fixed time interval, regardless of your last login).

Quote:
If everyone stands to gain the same thing, anyone who doesn't do the activity falls behind everyone else and their own potential.


IMO, the issue is more about it being the only way to gain additional SP (disregarding the injectors that are absoluely not accessible to everyone, yes, a lot of people can't afford to pop 650 mil and still have the ISK to actually exploit these skills). So it's not like you can farm something to get them if you don't log in every day. Someone logging in every day for 10 minutes will skill faster than someone playing 5 hours every threee days...

PS : added complexity with no or little added depth is more often than not a bad means to achieve something. Game design 102. Plus, tbh, we don't really need even more complexity in this game.
Moebbius
The Phoenix Uprising
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1165 - 2016-04-11 23:55:36 UTC
Please no, dont do this.

Dont turn eve into all the other MMO's where you need to do some dailey's.
It also completely doesnt fit with EvE.

So please dont do this, please dont
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#1166 - 2016-04-12 00:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
Someone on Reddit had an interesting idea: If you really must do dailies, how about the reward being the ability to move some SP from trained skills to the unallocated pool with perfect efficiency? That would be handy and unique, and could make existing SP more useful without messing up long-term training plans for those who can't log in.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#1167 - 2016-04-12 00:17:15 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Wow CCP
And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game.


Actually citadels are much more concerning than this (which is still pretty damn awful), and I'll be posting in detail about why when I've managed to a) get them working well enough on sisi to finish testing all the scenarios I have planned and b) taken enough time out from wrecking bears on tq.
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1168 - 2016-04-12 00:40:28 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Wow CCP
And finally the traditional MMO comparisons. While I found most of these comments to be the most entertaining, it's pretty absurd to think that any feature which can be found in a traditional MMO appearing in EVE means we are headed down the road to battlegrounds and dragon killing. If you look at Citadel feature list you should not have any concerns about our commitment to the EVE sandbox and the hardcore nature of our game.


Actually citadels are much more concerning than this (which is still pretty damn awful), and I'll be posting in detail about why when I've managed to a) get them working well enough on sisi to finish testing all the scenarios I have planned and b) taken enough time out from wrecking bears on tq.


Let me guess: the rise of the Citadels gives all the power in EVE Online to the bigger and more powerful veteran alliances, because they'll be able to field more Fortizars and/or Keepstars than newer alliances who are trying to make it on their own throughout New Eden. This power imbalance is further widened by the fact that Citadels are more than able to fight back against fleets on their own (completely repel them with a fleet supporting the Citadel).

This means that players can no longer capture Stations in the traditional sense, and instead have to expend resources over the course of a week in order to destroy a Citadel in order to gain control of the system. Meanwhile, a superior alliance will have the time and resources to continually build fleets back up for the next stage of defense, while the lesser alliance will struggle keeping up a continual assault.

Gone will be the days of skirmishing nodes in order to capture structures in systems; if you want to claim a system with a Citadel in it, you have to come prepared for prolonged battle.

Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you?

The Daily opportunities do not threaten the nature of EVE, either. In a way, it is actually productive, rewarding the players properly for engaging in activities in EVE Online, and allow them to quicken the training of whatever skills they desire. It is beneficial to all players, even the veteran ones who want to train into skills they weren't trained in before.

I am personally looking forward to it; it will help me to catch up in much needed skills.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#1169 - 2016-04-12 00:42:59 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
... So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.


Fair enough, but in this case you should simply restrict the SP delivery to the act of logging in itself. If, as you say, getting the player into the client is the goal, then tying it to an activity the player may or may not desire to engage in would fail.

So, some suggestions:
1 - Lose the 22 hour time period. That is simply dumb. Just have the Logon Reward reset every downtime.
2 - Lose the term daily. Restrict this to one event only: logging into the character. If the goal, as you state, is to reward people for logging in and, as you state, logging in itself under the old queue system resulted in more than just logging in, you don't need it tied to an activity.
3 - If you absolutely feel the need to tie it to an activity, then you need to not just implement this with NPC combat. The reward is granted for completing one of any designated activities: scanning an anomaly, blowing up an NPC, blowing up another player, creating a market order/purchase, starting an industry/research job, jumping through a wormhole/gate, etc.

But, above all, lose the 22 hour time period. Just tie it to down time as the reset period. You are making more work for yourselves and players with anything else.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1170 - 2016-04-12 01:14:28 UTC
The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats.
Boe Harknes
The FreeThought Society
#1171 - 2016-04-12 01:14:44 UTC
i have to admit i do not like this idea. the obvious implications is we are now generating sp from now. another post already shows how this can easily be abused and used to farm skill points. I play this game because my progressive is set by time. not because inhave to grind dailies for progress. change it to LP or isk bonus but not skill points.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1172 - 2016-04-12 01:35:30 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats.


most ppl are not upset with this in particular we are afraid ccp is using it to test something bigger and more intrusive
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1173 - 2016-04-12 01:37:59 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
The thing about the daily complaint: I've played daily games, it sucks, and I would never want to see this in eve. But, this isn't really dailies. It just rewards people for doing what they normally do, assuming people don't never kill rats. For this reason, I would like it to be a reward for industry or PvP or Rats.


most ppl are not upset with this in particular we are afraid ccp is using it to test something bigger and more intrusive

no that was injectors.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#1174 - 2016-04-12 01:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you?


No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1175 - 2016-04-12 01:38:45 UTC
just go with it
Mikkal Rune
Doomheim
#1176 - 2016-04-12 01:47:28 UTC
I disagree with this, for the reasons given here.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1177 - 2016-04-12 01:48:18 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you?


No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together.

null-sec (the scope videos made me do it) is the one place where you get new spawns of rats as one dies.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#1178 - 2016-04-12 01:57:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
Rain6639 wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Can I assume that I have covered all the points that concern you?


No, their mechanics are actually incredibly imbalanced to say the least and completely broken when exploited to full effectiveness. I also literally do not care about null warfare, CCP has still given little reason for owning nullsec to matter except for penis comparison, especially since owning the new Jita market will be worth more than all of nullsec put together.

null-sec (the scope videos made me do it) is the one place where you get new spawns of rats as one dies.


And ratting is miniscule compared to a cut of all Jita trade. This thread's not about citadels though. I'll be making posts about them soon.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1179 - 2016-04-12 02:02:45 UTC
my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1180 - 2016-04-12 02:16:49 UTC
Rain6639 wrote:
my point is a daily 10k SP carrot is a buff to null sec


not a buff to anything its a nerf to freedom