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First post
Author
Mayharm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#821 - 2016-04-10 17:24:29 UTC
IN A PLAYER DRIVEN FUTURE

[11:15]

Servers are back online and you login. You open the corporation interface and check the daily missions on offer BY Eve University. Currently there are no dailies that provide an industrial reward/input and you're an industrialist. You check the Eve universities daily mission channel:

[11:15:32] EVE System > Channel MOTD:
Welcome to E-Uni dailies!

E-Uni membership: 1696
Dailies membership/license ratio: 75%

E-Uni license total: 1497
Open licenses: 360
Dailies posted: 937
Dailies completed: 200

Online dailies Co-ordinator: Player Agent Smith
[11:16:03] You > Hello, can i get an industry daily please?
[11:17:56] Player Agent Smith > Hi, ok we have 360 open so sure. We need hulls mostly, what can you build for us?
[11:18:12] You > I can build incursus, algos and thorax hulls

* Agent Smith checks what e-uni is planning over the next few weeks and sees a fleet that uses a thorax doctrine. NOTE that if there is no need for your services at all, you can log off, you can go look for content as if there were no daily, your choice, but you have been inspired to login for 5 minutes to CHECK for a daily.

[11:21:52] Player Agent Smith > Ok I can set up a daily for a thorax hull, payment 10M isk, with an Ore site reward. That ok with you?
[11:22:04] You > Yes please

* Agent Smith sets up the daily using a contract style interface. E-uni pays a fee to CONCORD of 1M isk and pays you 10M isk just as they might within the existing contracts system, you set up a manufacturing job for the thorax to deliver into the corp hangar and once the daily is completed CCP gives you a random journal entry. Because Agent Smith set the daily to give an ore site reward that journal entry leads to an Ore site, for example a small kernite deposit in highsec with a total worth of 10-20M isk.

[11:24:49] You > Thanks!
[11:24:55] Player Agent Smith > You're welcome! Now go out and show those rocks who is the boss!

You then spend x amount of time (I don't mine enough to know how to work out the time factor in this example) UNDOCKED completing the site in your hulk.

Tomorrow you could login and decide, just for kicks, to do the same daily but get a combat site reward. This would be a 3/10 complex in highsec, say serpentis narcotic warehouse, which gives you an opportunity to try out your new exploration vexor.

Pros:

  • You are only "forced" to login by CCP, which is what they want out of this. The "force" applied to you to actually DO a daily is driven by the players themselves, which is what WE want out of it, yes?

  • It requires some level of interaction between players. That's even if NOTHING happens.

  • It provides a boost to the existing contract system without replacing it.

  • The rewards are direct copies or variations of sites you can already do in space, so no threat of drastically unbalancing the eve economy.

  • All CCP need to code is the interface, hopefully the contract and expedition/exploration code can be re-used or added to include this relatively easily.

  • It solves a long standing issue for new players trying to do combat sites in highsec. All the decent content is hoovered up by experienced players in Gilas and Ishtars. A new player just cant compete, will be discouraged and may never get to see a 3/10 site before they give up. In this case it's a journal entry and so nigh on impossible to be contested for the site, but you still have the danger of being in space nonetheless.

  • With the license structure you can balance it so that gaming the system is discouraged. E.g.:

  • Corp Members - % licenses - Total licensees
    1 - 0% - 0
    2 - 50% - 1
    10 - 55% - 5
    100 - 60% - 60

    Even if someone insists on setting up an alt corp and fills it with their nine accounts worth of alts, they benefit MORE from doing this *with* other players trying to do the same thing, encouraging "grinders" to join a single corp (which you could then wardec if you don't like grinders.... they will be un-docking after all).

  • The rewards can be balanced to be tempting for newer players but not something you couldn't live without as an experienced player. I know when exploring I prefer 4/10, but will do 3/10 if i cant find them. If I cant get my "free" 3/10 and want to explore, i would just go back to my usual routine and search for 4/10s. I do see it being annoying not to get it as a new player, BUT that inspires them to go ASK their corp for more or to switch corps to one that they believe might provide them more dailies. In the E-uni I expect people like me would forgo taking up one of the license points from the newbros if we could help it, other corps might put different systems in place to control the supply, providing more player-driven content.

  • CCP can start small with this, but if it works it can be scaled up, tied to sovnull/structures and still be driven by the players not CCP. CCP can also expand the interface to include different types of exchanges between the player corporations and their membership.

  • Because it's inspired by the existing contracts system it should be easy enough to take estimates of the impact of this by looking at corp contract stats. In addition with CCP controlling the fee, the license and the value of the reward site, they should be able to take swift action to modify the numbers if players find a way to exploit it.

  • Cons:

  • CCP might choose to introduce exclusive content via dailies, this system doesn't prevent them from doing so. However, while I don't think it's immune to this, I think it being player driven might mitigate the resultant problems with that.

  • There is a disadvantage for smaller corps getting a lower license ratio, but it should be possible to balance the license ratios between their needs and the risks of exploitation.
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#822 - 2016-04-10 17:25:04 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


What about people like me who play the game by managing an alliance providing content to others and teaching newbie how would I get the sp?


Indeed, there are more important things to do in eve. This just gets in the way besides being the slippery slope to Hello Kitty Online.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#823 - 2016-04-10 17:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
u3pog wrote:
Daily I won't bother, only casual player, but it you add weelkly and more challenging I might do it.


Don't worry when dailies work they will no doubt add weeklies,monthlie and special days

Oh don't forget the log in x days straight to get a unique item
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#824 - 2016-04-10 17:34:31 UTC
40+ pages.

As has been stated, there are tons of other features that need cleaned up, that are more important than a daily reward program for logging on.

But, if i have read enough, the consent is! WE DO NOT WANT DAILIES. This is EVE, not WoW or any other grind based MMO.
So please, rethink this...

I know the OP was the stepping stone to more features built on this one. But, as has been stated, we have tons of features already that are half ***ed and not complete.

Put more man power on the Ghost fitting window, redoing the PVE combat experiences, being able to swap toons without having to quit the game.

xoxo

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#825 - 2016-04-10 17:36:00 UTC
If your goal is to get people to log in daily then daily events with rich rewards are much better.

Personally would love to see more NPC Empire vs Empire action that players can take part in, because with all due respect to the Player vs Player nullsec crowd, we all have learned from countless examples that your primary goal is boredom and monetizing EVE in approved and not so approved ways.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Lugh Crow-Slave
#826 - 2016-04-10 17:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Amarisen Gream wrote:
40+ pages.

As has been stated, there are tons of other features that need cleaned up, that are more important than a daily reward program for logging on.

But, if i have read enough, the consent is! WE DO NOT WANT DAILIES. This is EVE, not WoW or any other grind based MMO.
So please, rethink this...

I know the OP was the stepping stone to more features built on this one. But, as has been stated, we have tons of features already that are half ***ed and not complete.

Put more man power on the Ghost fitting window, redoing the PVE combat experiences, being able to swap toons without having to quit the game.

xoxo


Wait you mean use game play to get ppl to log in not hand outs?

What are you mad?

One way to do it is implement your fw idea of letting individuals join fw without the entire corp
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#827 - 2016-04-10 17:42:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Big Lynx wrote:
Great BS. Nobody in the ENTIRE virtual and real world forces you to do the daily. There are simply no arguments against this. only salt and tears without a factual background. So much buttpain for 3mio SP per year (!) Grow up nerds.Roll

…except that you are being forced. There are no two ways about it. You have two options: one which rewards you in the most insane manner imaginable for accepting subpar gameplay; one where you forego said reward in exchange for the thing you actually want to do, which is bad for you.

This is not an actual choice. It's a form of coercion: do as we say, or suffer the consequences. The argument that you're not “forced” was as pathetic and ignorant back when it was used to try to save the learning skills, and for much the same reason: because you had no sane or sensible choice but to do the one beneficial thing.

Just because you have a choice not to go along does not mean you're not being forced — that's where the defenders of this retardation get it wrong. Let's draw it to an extreme: someone pulls a gun on you and tells you to give them all your money or they'll blow your knees off. Are you being forced? Yes. Every cogent and coherent (and legal) interpretation of the situation would classify this as you being forced, in spite of your having a choice. Because, again, choosing between two options where one is idiotic is not an actual choice; “you can choose not to” only works as an argument if choosing not to is a sensible choice to make. CCP has decided to force the issue by making the choice of non-participation to not be sensible.

Just like “you're not forced to” was a useless and wholly inaccurate argument for keeping learning skills, it is a useless and wholly inaccurate argument for implementing this nonsense because by the very nature of the coercion — the fact that you have to give up a 20–30% increase in number of training hours per day(!!) in order to play the sandbox your way rather than the way CCP demands you do — you are being forced.

At the end of the day, there are no sane arguments for this because it is the most idiotic implementation imaginable of one of the most braindead design elements of a completely unrelated genre. It serves no purpose. It does not fit in from a core design standpoint. It does not fit in from a “gameplay ecosystem” standpoint. It offers no benefit; ıt only penalises non-conformance. None of the intents — implied or actual — are being well served. The fact that no-one has been able to argue against these facts, instead only referring to “buttpain” from “nerds” demonstrates the complete failure to even mount the slightest shred of a reasoning in favour of the proposal.
Quisten
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#828 - 2016-04-10 17:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Quisten
I'm absolutely against the implementation of this idea. For the same reasons as others have posted here before. I think I understand the motivation behind it, and I also have experience with other MMOs where dailies exist. I don't think they belong in EVE.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#829 - 2016-04-10 17:56:13 UTC
And for the people saying your should be rewarded for logging in more than the people who don't this idea is still bad

Say you can only log in on the week end but you spend 5 hrs a day so 10hrs a week

Yet I'm rewarded more than you because I log in two minutes every day are my 14 minuts a week better for the game than your 10hrs
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#830 - 2016-04-10 17:57:33 UTC
Zoltan Cole wrote:
Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO

SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#831 - 2016-04-10 18:00:53 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Zoltan Cole wrote:
Yet, the net whole is more players online. That's neat -- the game progression being mostly offline is an absolutely awful design for an MMO

SP Progression happens offline, yet game progression certainly happens online (or at least online in the meta sense). Eve progression is a hard concept to grasp for most newbies, progression depends solely upon what goal you set yourself and not grinding towards some arbitrary level cap.


This exactly
Quisten
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#832 - 2016-04-10 18:04:42 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
And for the people saying your should be rewarded for logging in more than the people who don't this idea is still bad

Say you can only log in on the week end but you spend 5 hrs a day so 10hrs a week

Yet I'm rewarded more than you because I log in two minutes every day are my 14 minuts a week better for the game than your 10hrs


I could probably accept if they rewarded ISK for these dailies, if they really wanted to make EVE more like WoW. But certainly not SP.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#833 - 2016-04-10 18:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Quisten wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
And for the people saying your should be rewarded for logging in more than the people who don't this idea is still bad

Say you can only log in on the week end but you spend 5 hrs a day so 10hrs a week

Yet I'm rewarded more than you because I log in two minutes every day are my 14 minuts a week better for the game than your 10hrs


I could probably accept if they rewarded ISK for these dailies, if they really wanted to make EVE more like WoW. But certainly not SP.


Same

And considering the majority of new players I talk to have the sp to branch out but are to afraid to lose ships this would probably be better for them

And it would scale better if it was say 10 mil that's alot to a new bro and definitely worth logging in every day but after a few months you make 2x that in an hr letting you be free to do what you want without worrying about them

With SP the older you are the more the sp is worth do to the diminishing returns of skill injectors.
The sp fir a vet is I worth 3x as much as it is for a new player
But this is not for new players this is fit ccps numbers
Kieron VonDeux
#834 - 2016-04-10 18:18:02 UTC
Welcome to the End.

It was fun while it lasted.


Lugh Crow-Slave
#835 - 2016-04-10 18:21:15 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Welcome to the End.

It was fun while it lasted.




Lo eve won't end or just won't be what we enjoy it will be just shy other hand holding mmo
Tomika
Doomheim
#836 - 2016-04-10 18:21:32 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Same

And considering the majority of new players I talk to have the sp to branch out but are to afraid to lose ships this would probably be better for them

And it would scale better if it was say 10 mil that's alot to a new bro and definitely worth logging in every day but after a few months you make 2x that in an hr letting you be free to do what you want without worrying about them

With SP the older you are the more the sp is worth do to the diminishing returns of skill injectors.
The sp fir a vet is I worth 3x as much as it is for a new player
But this is not for new players this is fit ccps numbers


55 posts you made already in this thread, and they're becoming increasingly illegible. Maybe it's time for a break?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#837 - 2016-04-10 18:26:47 UTC
Tomika wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Same

And considering the majority of new players I talk to have the sp to branch out but are to afraid to lose ships this would probably be better for them

And it would scale better if it was say 10 mil that's alot to a new bro and definitely worth logging in every day but after a few months you make 2x that in an hr letting you be free to do what you want without worrying about them

With SP the older you are the more the sp is worth do to the diminishing returns of skill injectors.
The sp fir a vet is I worth 3x as much as it is for a new player
But this is not for new players this is fit ccps numbers


55 posts you made already in this thread, and they're becoming increasingly illegible. Maybe it's time for a break?


Good sir out of the 55 there were far more illegible posts than this if you had the time to count then I'm sure you had the abulity to fir and quote a better one
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#838 - 2016-04-10 18:27:26 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Welcome to the End.

It was fun while it lasted.




While funny, I'd like to point out how counter productive this is. EVERY time there is a change (good or bad) people start talking about the end of EVE and "minus a million accounts!!" and such. Eventually it has a 'crying wolf' affect on people, especially CCP.

Right now Rise and Co. are probably sitting back thinking "hmm, usual end of the world/game hurf blurf, that must mean the idea is fine". This is why I'm careful to say that a change is bad on it's one merits but it probably won't kill the game, like skill trading (which I continue to oppose).

Anger is natural but it doesn't serve to change the minds of the powers that be. Reason does (sometimes lol).
Lugh Crow-Slave
#839 - 2016-04-10 18:30:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Welcome to the End.

It was fun while it lasted.




While funny, I'd like to point out how counter productive this is. EVERY time there is a change (good or bad) people start talking about the end of EVE and "minus a million accounts!!" and such. Eventually it has a 'crying wolf' affect on people, especially CCP.

Right now Rise and Co. are probably sitting back thinking "hmm, usual end of the world/game hurf blurf, that must mean the idea is fine". This is why I'm careful to say that a change is bad on it's one merits but it probably won't kill the game, like skill trading (which I continue to oppose).

Anger is natural but it doesn't serve to change the minds of the powers that be. Reason does (sometimes lol).


To be honest I don't think any feed back in this thread will stop this change ccp knows is not going to be what many players want but they also know there is enough of them that will do dailies to achieve the goal
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#840 - 2016-04-10 18:43:33 UTC
The only question I'm interested in is how they will adjust the number of SP awarded per day. I see it as a matter of balance at this point.