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The death of DUST...

Author
Trader20
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2016-04-07 20:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Trader20
Cismet wrote:
Trader20 wrote:
Dust failed because they released it on an inferior piece of tech with worse resolution and graphics then a toaster oven.

Also nothing wrong with FW. It's no commitment pvp neither bad or good just efficient.


Irrelevant. The graphics and tech are meaningless if the game is good. I can't be bothered to cite example after example, but here's two, one old, one new:

SimCity 2000 - still a magnificent example of a game even after all this time.
Invisible Inc. - One of the best games of last year by an indie developer, graphics are terrible even by comparison with dust and the PS2 could probably have run it.

If the game is good, the rest doesn't matter. There are always people for whom graphicsizshiny is a mantra, for those people EvE would look dated and crap. You've just advocated Style over Substance.


Graphics don't matter to people that usually can't afford nice computers. Why else would you pay alot of money for a nice graphics card if you don't care about graphics (Lol you got logic'd).

Also indie-developer is the "organic food" of gaming......yes it's a scam.

Edit: typing from phone
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2016-04-07 20:52:43 UTC
LOL...read it on YouTube.

Who cares what some Neville wrote as a comment on YouTube. YouTube has a reputation for stupid comments.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#23 - 2016-04-07 21:04:37 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
AFAIK FW was test area for DUST interaction. But for some reason integration never went further

Honestly, to claim Dust ever was integrated with FW is a massive stretch. It was irrelevant even to FW pilots.

CCP had a good idea but didn't seem to have the confidence to actually pull it off properly.
Cismet
Immortal Lunatics
Ministry of Aggressive Destruction
#24 - 2016-04-07 21:09:18 UTC
Trader20 wrote:
Cismet wrote:
Trader20 wrote:
Dust failed because they released it on an inferior piece of tech with worse resolution and graphics then a toaster oven.

Also nothing wrong with FW. It's no commitment pvp neither bad or good just efficient.


Irrelevant. The graphics and tech are meaningless if the game is good. I can't be bothered to cite example after example, but here's two, one old, one new:

SimCity 2000 - still a magnificent example of a game even after all this time.
Invisible Inc. - One of the best games of last year by an indie developer, graphics are terrible even by comparison with dust and the PS2 could probably have run it.

If the game is good, the rest doesn't matter. There are always people for whom graphicsizshiny is a mantra, for those people EvE would look dated and crap. You've just advocated Style over Substance.


Graphics don't matter to people that usually can't afford nice computers. Why else would you pay alot of money for a nice graphics card if you don't care about graphics (Lol you got logic'd).

Also indie-developer is the "organic food" of gaming......yes it's a scam.

Edit: typing from phone


Of course I didn't, you just don't understand the concept that substance is better than style. I never said people don't care about graphics, I said that nice graphics alone does not a good game make. Given the choice between a good Game and good Graphics, most people would take the good game. Of course it's terrific if you can have both, but if I could only have 1, give me game every time.

As regards Indie games, go look at the figures for the likes of Undertale - 8 bit graphics. Evidently there's a lot of people being scammed. They don't seem to think so judging by the almost 50'000 overwhelmingly positive reviews on Steam alone.
Velarra
#25 - 2016-04-07 23:20:16 UTC
Cismet wrote:


Of course I didn't, you just don't understand the concept that substance is better than style. I never said people don't care about graphics, I said that nice graphics alone does not a good game make. Given the choice between a good Game and good Graphics, most people would take the good game. Of course it's terrific if you can have both, but if I could only have 1, give me game every time.

As regards Indie games, go look at the figures for the likes of Undertale - 8 bit graphics. Evidently there's a lot of people being scammed. They don't seem to think so judging by the almost 50'000 overwhelmingly positive reviews on Steam alone.


You've just reminded me of Psygnosis Smile
Corvald Tyrska
Valknetra
#26 - 2016-04-08 00:03:02 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
AFAIK FW was test area for DUST interaction. But for some reason integration never went further


Although the FW integration wasn't great, it was there and some coordinated pushes over the years by some strong DUST groups have helped conquer systems (as much as most EVE players would rather pretend they didn't matter).

They also did take the integration further with the district ownership in Molden Heath. Unfortunately it is an area of space not many players care about (which is why it was a good test area) and that ownership concept never spread further.

The real issue preventing any meaningful integration with EVE has been brought up many times but it is the inability to link the DUST and EVE economies, in no small part due to the prevalence of BPO suits which provide infinite quantities of items. This combined with some massive ISK imbalances in early days meant that the DUST economy was virtually impossible to integrate with EVE. Additionally, the ISK levels were very out of whack in that if they did integrate the economies, a single EVE player selling a PLEX could fund a DUST corp for a year due to the differences in costs.

Everything else (platform, graphics, ship to ground interaction) could have been handled one way or the other and even as it was DUST still had a dedicated core of players. The economy is the key because that is the core of what makes EVE truly EVE. It is what makes losses meaningful and what makes rewards rewarding.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-04-08 05:26:51 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
AFAIK FW was test area for DUST interaction. But for some reason integration never went further

Honestly, to claim Dust ever was integrated with FW is a massive stretch. It was irrelevant even to FW pilots.

CCP had a good idea but didn't seem to have the confidence to actually pull it off properly.

I remember when i could gank and kill LP farmers who used Dust orbital strikes to farm LPs. And i've seen bunny-killmails with some body thingies on them.... So at some point it was relevant.

I even remember when Dust was used in system captures. Like for my corp it was really unpleasant surprise to find that we lost the system we were fighting for because enemy bunnies did their job...

But then something happened and everyone just forgot about it. Dunno what....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Josef Djugashvilis
#28 - 2016-04-08 06:01:54 UTC
The only good thing about DUST was that a different game, on a different system, was not really allowed to interfere with a game I pay for for on a computer.

I never understood why a PS3 game I have nothing to do with, should be allowed to impact on a computer game I do pay for.

This is not a signature.

erg cz
ErgoDron
#29 - 2016-04-08 07:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: erg cz
Leonid Ragulin wrote:
Read this on youtube:

DUST failed not because of cheating or because of PS3s become obsolete.

It failed because its biggest selling point, interaction with EVE, was non existent.

Instead of tying in with the true battleground of EVE, ie Nullsec, they went for a tie in with a little-used, considered a joke by most players, worthless feature of the game - Factional Warfare. For those that dont play eve, factional warfare is regarded as 'pvp lite', 'newbie pvp', and the like. It is merely a place people can fight in small-size ships and earn 'loyalty points' that can be traded in for bigger ships of average power, that noone in the real PVP universe uses. Heard of the current 'Money Badgers Alliance vs The Imperium' war? Exactly 0 ships from Factional Warfare have been used or destroyed in what is now the biggest conflict in Eve, and hence in all of gaming history.


-1. Really.
Take a look at this description of your beloved null PvP in current war, where "Exactly 0 ships from Factional Warfare have been used or destroyed".
FW is the way to get the solo fight quickier, it requires from pilot more, than just listen to comms and press F1 . It is the only place, where at least some elements of match maker are introduced. You can not be ambushed with T3 destroyer in novice plex, for example.

So FW is place for fair solo or small gang fights, where you need to use your own brains and do not need to roam hours to fight the target. But if you want large fleet with expensive ships - join Villore Accords and enjoy plenty of them.

DUST is dead because it was not introduced for PC and lacked strong relations with Eve.
Arya Ikahrus
#30 - 2016-04-08 08:39:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Ikahrus
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
Actually... you've got a point there, I hadn't considered planetary shields (global or localized). Gotta be careful not to turn them into dyson spheres, and I would imagine a dread or titan should still be able to punch through eventually.

Though that does raise some questions regarding the current form of orbital bombardment - are we to assume that the battlefield locations are simply unshielded while other locations are? Or are the ground troops that call for a bombardment also by implication calling for the shields to temporarily drop at that location?


I would assume that the whole area is shielded, hence the requirement for small specialized ammunition. What it lacks in general damage it makes up for in ability to circumvent the shielding.

Personally I think the main use for ground troops would be capturing things, sure they can get in and drop the shields, but at that point you may as well just destroy the enemy clone boat from orbit and keep the facility for yourself.
Evasive Shadow Assassin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2016-04-08 08:43:31 UTC
this idiot has never pvped in his life, pvp lite lol

null pvp is a joke unles its mass vs mass

get a clue u idiot
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#32 - 2016-04-08 11:53:18 UTC
Walking in stations? This was to open the game up to...who, the RPG crowd? Visit each other in-station...a la The Sims? (Sim City was a great game, by the way, which fell to idiot demands by "players".) Walking in stations, or turning stations into islands of "another game" you arrive to through using spaceships instead of jump portals? I still don't see where the thinking is here, but I do know if you want another game, do it the old fashioned way.

Don't demand the makers of one game turn their game into the game YOU want. (I know THIS will be hard for a lot of airheads with keyboards to swallow.) Get out there in this perfect market driven, capitalist utopia and get those investors together. Get those designers on salary (with dental and health) and get that game into beta. We all await your miracle!

I've dissed Dust since I first heard of it, because (as with the My Little Pony-like WiS wonderment) I still don't see how you can realistically (not in the immersive sense of a game....tut tut tut) integrate two games literally - or actually. The one would have to be an extension of the other. (You'll have to be able to think to follow this...kids, you may as well get ready for beddy bye.)

The planetary interaction was a bold and inventive (pardon the pun) way to move from space to the planet surface. However, in terms of scale, to have your little clone walking around your industrial complex the way your Star Wars avatar walks around Coruscant's vendor malls, would require a game larger than EVE itself. The interface in station was a brilliant solution to this. Asking more really amounts to no more than your four-year-old begging for a rainbow pony for Christmas. (You'll get underwear and like it, kid.) We're not handing over the keys to the house and car to the four year old. Sorry.

Dust, as a stand alone FPS, or even a fully elaborated MMO/RPG environment is also a doable idea, sure. It has to compete with the other games in that genre. Battlefield 2142 was one such idea, modernistic FPS, which fell on its sword, despite the legendary success of BF2. But, hey, if a company wants to give such a game a shot, it's their dough. Dust, as it was developed, was given its shot, and regardless of whether it directly interacted with EVE or not, it rose and fell on its own merit as a stand alone game. I for the life of me couldn't imagine how they'd integrate the two games.

Anyone with a basic understanding how these games function (as a mechanical process) knew at the outset there wouldn't be any serious integration of the two. You'd have to completely rework the first to interweave it with the second, 'cause ultimately it has to be one package - one game. No. What we continue to see in this discussion is nothing more than airheads with their endless font of unreasonable, ill-considered and uninformed expectations.

We have this group of people now, that didn't used to be with us (so I can only imagine they've grown up gaming and have now "graduated" to join our ranks) who think pounding on keyboards in forums with petulant demands can force a corporation to cater to their whims. Unfortunately, they've seen examples where this was actually done. However, such examples also have financial crises, and many failures as their "endgame."

So, for you birds out there. Sorry. No pony for Christmas. You'll get the underwear like everybody else....

...and like it.

PS This wasn't typed for you, birds, either. It's for the ones whose ranks you joined who are either too kind or too naive to realize what's happened here. WiS...before you type that in a post again, get an "I'm Stupid" tattoo on your forehead. It makes you look more intelligent.







If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.

Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#33 - 2016-04-08 17:04:51 UTC
Corvald Tyrska wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
AFAIK FW was test area for DUST interaction. But for some reason integration never went further


Although the FW integration wasn't great, it was there and some coordinated pushes over the years by some strong DUST groups have helped conquer systems (as much as most EVE players would rather pretend they didn't matter).

Nope, it was an irrelevant side show. The only real impact most FW players noticed was dust bunnies cluttering up local.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#34 - 2016-04-08 17:07:44 UTC
Evasive Shadow Assassin wrote:
this idiot has never pvped in his life, pvp lite lol

null pvp is a joke unles its mass vs mass

get a clue u idiot

Nope. Your probably just not smart enough to catch anyone in null sec. Null PvP definitely does exist.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#35 - 2016-04-08 19:55:09 UTC
*Pinches the bridge of his noes*

Lets talk history shall we? In 2007, we got the first inkling that a shooter was coming, it was not much, but there were heavy hints ccp was working on WoD, and Dust. In 08 the rumblings got stronger, WoD was all but confirmed to be coming, and the hinting grew. In 2009, we got confirmation Dust was coming, and heavily hinted at console. (sometime later it was confirmed, i think 2010) Dust was suppose to come out 18 months sooner then it did, and was suppose to be bundled with the ps3 slim. CCP missed this deadline (for whatever reason) so it shipped late.

When Dust was conceived and worked on, it was designed for ps3. Switching tot he ps4 would of delayed it even longer, and as WoD was running WAY over, and EVE was shifting into repair and rebuild mode in 2011, that would not of been acceptable.

Looking at Dust from a strictly BUSINESS standpoint, there were/are something like 80m ps3's on the market That is a very sizeable chunk of the gaming base to tap into. CCP also most likely pitched the idea to other companies, like Microsoft, and got a partner in Sony. Based on the dea they made with oculus, i think Sony may have given ccp a cash influx to make it. And Honestly, who wouldn't? The idea of the two games linked on different platforms, if ccp has pulled it off, it would of been huge.

dust made money, enough to recoup it losses? idk, but in 2015 it made cash. It would of made more had the Rouge wedding not happened. From a business perspective, Dust made money, so was a success.

HOWEVER, from a Developer/Design perspective, Dust failed to live up to its potential, and i believe CCP ran into Technical Hurdles that made what they wanted to do difficult with the PS3.


In business, you will have success and failure, and any business that doesn;t try to grow and evolve will die. Most of the reasons people state for Dust failing are wrong. Dust failed because it was too gimmicky. CCP focused on the gimmick of EVE and Dust connected. But did not have great core game play (i was fun for what it was, but nothing amazeballs, and just average when you look at other shooters). That was the biggest issue. Then when it became obvious that they could not link dust how they really wnated, then the whole concept fails, so now the game can stand up on its own very well. And the amount of time to 'fix' the design flaws, due to being designed around a gimmick, ment it was just easier to scrape it and start over.

A side note: gunjack is making money. Base don just the people who reviewed gunjack on gear VR its made about $60k (~6k ratings at $10 each = ~$60k) thats just the people who rated it on gearVR. and lots of people don;t rate games, so i would not be suprized if its made well over 100k.

The point is, Dust did not fail cause of ps3 or not being on pc, it failed because it was designed around a gimmick and not good game play. Which it seems ccp has learned is not the best way to make games.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Corvald Tyrska
Valknetra
#36 - 2016-04-08 21:22:38 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Corvald Tyrska wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
AFAIK FW was test area for DUST interaction. But for some reason integration never went further


Although the FW integration wasn't great, it was there and some coordinated pushes over the years by some strong DUST groups have helped conquer systems (as much as most EVE players would rather pretend they didn't matter).

Nope, it was an irrelevant side show. The only real impact most FW players noticed was dust bunnies cluttering up local.


I'm not going to pretend that DUST bunnies were capturing systems left, right and center but certainly at its height there was a very measurable impact in the Amarr-Minmatar warzone. There are some very large, very dedicated Amarr-based RP groups in DUST who linked up with the EVE corps and they had a noticeable impact on the speed of capturing systems. When Minmatar was winning a couple of years back, there were plenty of systems that took a lot longer to capture than they should have due to DUST losses and when Minmatar started losing after that peak, systems fell far faster than they otherwise would.

More meaningful interaction would have been nice but anyone who paid attention to that warzone over the past couple of years would have seen the impact of DUST. Whilst they couldn't capture systems on their own they can and did reduce the number of plexes required to be run to capture systems and thus sped up the captures noticeably.
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#37 - 2016-04-09 05:55:54 UTC
If they re-release it on PC and develop some new features for it I'm absolutely sure it'd probably kick up again
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#38 - 2016-04-09 07:12:45 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
If they re-release it on PC and develop some new features for it I'm absolutely sure it'd probably kick up again


I will only play it if they only allow us to use our Characters on our accounts. Buy the skills for ground pounding and such. Blink

Empire, the next new world order.

Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
#39 - 2016-04-09 14:37:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Pleasure Hub Node-514
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
If they re-release it on PC and develop some new features for it I'm absolutely sure it'd probably kick up again

That's sort of the plan. Expect to hear some news at Fanfest about the work they've been doing rebooting Dust for PC. They've scrapped Unreal 3 and are building a 'new game.'

The Future of Dust: CCP Frame Update

Dust is shutting down on May 30.

'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4

cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-04-10 14:04:57 UTC
Dust was a unique game in many ways and even to this day you can still have a lot of fun in the game. The customisation lifted from EVE was one of the best aspects. (Even though we still dont have full Racial parity in terms of weapons / vehicles etc... sorry Amarr and Minmatar vehicles....you never made it)

It did have many issues as a game, some of them were design issues but a lot of them were performance and bug related issues. Over time they did manage to iron some of them out and polish the game a bit but I am really hoping that in the next FPS that CCP do, they learn from the past and they do all of the great bits even better.

I also would really love it if there was actual meaningful interaction between EVE and the new FPS. I am hoping that as it will be on PC this time we will see a lot of what we hoped for.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......

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