These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[proposal] remove rediculous javelin missile penalties
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Arbiter Reformed
I Have a Plan
Shadow Cartel
#1 - 2012-01-03 05:33:50 UTC
the speed reduction on javelin missiles is an overly harsh penalty for such a mediocre gain in range. you only have to look at ammo such as scorch or barrage to realise that no1 past mission golems uses javelins.

a full rack of javelins on a sacrelige (5 launchers) slashes 300ms off its mwd speed

a drake will go 730ms with javs loaded

i understand the reluctance to allow for easier coasting but wouldnt it be nice to make use of our beloved cruisers mobility

would a hurricane use barrage if it lost 20% speed would a slicer use scorch as much?


Attentionall of this for 10km range!
Attention javelins never needed this nerf, by the end of the speed nerf javs were more or less balanced
rodensteiner
Looser Cannons
#2 - 2012-01-03 17:47:30 UTC
I can only agree with this. Scorch, Barrage, etc. do not carry speed penalties, so why the Javelin missiles carry such a penalty is somewhat of a mystery to me.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3 - 2012-01-03 18:30:50 UTC
I could understand if javs were common on Minnie ships, but some of the slowest ships in the game use missiles as a primary source of damage.

So yeah, this penalty is ridiculous.
bryanbc
Abyssal Heavy Industries
#4 - 2012-01-07 04:04:03 UTC
because missles are gay learn to use turrets noob
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#5 - 2012-01-07 08:06:11 UTC
Perhaps replace the speed penalty with a cap recharge penalty?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#6 - 2012-01-07 18:25:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Perhaps replace the speed penalty with a cap recharge penalty?


Wait...What!

They already used to have that moronic penalty on Rage missiles, remember? It was horrible. They replaced it with the signature bloom.

Perhaps they should just remove all the ship penalties from both Javelin and Rage like they did for all other turret based T2 ammo?

Keeping ship penalties on missile ammo is simply imbalanced. But I have been crying over this for what seems like forever.



Patri




Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Arbiter Reformed
I Have a Plan
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2012-01-07 21:51:28 UTC
Patri Andari wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Perhaps replace the speed penalty with a cap recharge penalty?


Wait...What!

They already used to have that moronic penalty on Rage missiles, remember? It was horrible. They replaced it with the signature bloom.

Perhaps they should just remove all the ship penalties from both Javelin and Rage like they did for all other turret based T2 ammo?

Keeping ship penalties on missile ammo is simply imbalanced. But I have been crying over this for what seems like forever.



Patri






i doo agree, and while there are allot of ballance issues surrounding missiles, this one seems to be the most rediculous
Jalmari Huitsikko
Avanto
Hole Control
#8 - 2012-01-08 12:46:39 UTC
+1 speed penalty is just ridiculous
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#9 - 2012-01-10 17:22:17 UTC
You know, if you were a computer game character I'm afraid I would remove you too for your infuriating insistence on spelling 'ridiculous' 'rediculous'.


Having said that though, I will support your proposal. :)

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#10 - 2012-01-10 18:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Frankly, I've always thought all the penalties were a waste of time.

I almost never use T2 ammunition as a result; because it just handicaps the ship too much. It might be okay in very specific, controllable circumstances; but overall it's a penalty that is completely out of scope with the benefits. Never made sense to me.

Why would you severely incapacitate an entire ship for a little bit of range, or a bit more damage. Sure, the Rage Torpedoes DPS nicely; but they suffer from other penalties already. As far as I know, all T2 ammo does.

Example:

Standard Torpedo:

Max. Velocity 1500 m/s
Flight Time 6 s
Damage 450
Explosion Velocity 71 m/s
Explosion Radius 450m

Rage Torpedo:

Max. Velocity 1250 m/s
Flight Time 6.4s
Damage 576
Explosion Velocity 61 m/s
Explosion Radius 650m

Why would you need to penalize the ship; when you've already balanced the Missile.

Special Reference - Caldari Faction Torpedo:

Max Velocity 1500 m/s
Flight Time 6s
Damage 517
Explosion Velocity 71 m/s
Explosion Radius 450m

The CN Torpedo boosts damage with no adjustment to compensate for that increase - because it's Faction and limited supply/increased cost.

The boost is 67 points, with 59 points between it and the T2 Rage. The rage loses in Explosion Velocity, Explosion Radius, and speed, and ultimately range. Base range is 1 km less than Standard and Faction Torpedoes.

Why penalize the ship? It doesn't make any sense.

You've already killed it's effectiveness against smaller ships, and dedicated it towards attacking larger targets.

I'm pretty sure this covers the major portion of T2 ammunition to similar effect. Every one I've checked out was that way, as far as I can recall.

So yeah, +1 on this and de-nerfing T2 ammo in general. The penalties aren't worth it 98% of the time.

edit: ..and if that argument isn't enough for you; the current penalties just give one more reason to Blob. This is just one more reason not to fly solo or in small gangs.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#11 - 2012-01-11 17:56:17 UTC
Arbiter Reformed wrote:
the speed reduction on javelin missiles is an overly harsh penalty for such a mediocre gain in range. you only have to look at ammo such as scorch or barrage to realise that no1 past mission golems uses javelins.

a full rack of javelins on a sacrelige (5 launchers) slashes 300ms off its mwd speed

a drake will go 730ms with javs loaded

i understand the reluctance to allow for easier coasting but wouldnt it be nice to make use of our beloved cruisers mobility

would a hurricane use barrage if it lost 20% speed would a slicer use scorch as much?


Attentionall of this for 10km range!
Attention javelins never needed this nerf, by the end of the speed nerf javs were more or less balanced



Dont forget precision missiles, they have speed penalty and half flight times too.
Arbiter Reformed
I Have a Plan
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2012-01-12 07:35:15 UTC
i hesitate to suggest all penalties are bad without a rebalance of hmls. they are already too powerfull imo.

javelin hams and rockets are simply not used, would be nice for closerange missiles to get some nice longrange to compete better with hmls and other wepon systems
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#13 - 2012-01-13 03:44:58 UTC
I agree that the javelin rockets, hams, and torps need their ship velocity penalties removed.

With turret based "long range" ammo such as scorch and barrage you sacrifice tracking for increased range, which generally this tracking penalty is offset because of the nature of turrets being able to track better the farther away the target is... So not much of a penalty there. Given the nature of the "close range" missile launchers, they have poor explosion velocity/radius (they fixed rockets...after how many years of people asking?) and don't even benefit from one of the skills to increase one of these. I can load scorch and offset my tracking penalty with my level 5 tracking skill and use range to get better hits, whilst close range missiles don't even have these two options to migitate any penalties.
Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
#14 - 2012-01-14 00:50:10 UTC
+1 Speed penalties on missiles is too gimping. Sig or cap reduction I can understand, but turning some of the most sluggish ships in the game in to even bigger slow boats is a little much.
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#15 - 2012-01-14 13:24:42 UTC
bump

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Arbiter Reformed
I Have a Plan
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2012-01-15 23:43:18 UTC
Kolya Medz wrote:
+1 Speed penalties on missiles is too gimping. Sig or cap reduction I can understand, but turning some of the most sluggish ships in the game in to even bigger slow boats is a little much.



i just think that effect on the ship rather than the missile are unnecessary t2 gun ammo got these taken away as they were too gimping, i think its time unguided missiles got the same
Arbiter Reformed
I Have a Plan
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2012-01-24 15:44:26 UTC
bamp!