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Dear CCP where does one draw the line?

First post
Author
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#41 - 2016-04-09 10:45:35 UTC
...and this is why deklein is burning.

:D

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Amyclas Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2016-04-09 10:49:35 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Imagine if we did the same to you. (we probably already do.)


What do you mean 'probably', Kimosabe? GIA/Black Hand are very, very good at what they do.

Daxley wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Just pointing out that it looks a bit **** to have your product associated with such a ****** act really...

Thats all.


EVE Online is literally famous for these types of things in bloc wars. Right now, EVE is getting more press than Donald Trump between VR/Valkyrie and this war, let it roll baby.


Yup. These sorts of shenanigans will appeal to a great many gamers. Heck, it was a combination of reading about the Guiding Hand Social Club and reports on B-R5RB that drew me in.


We can neither confirm nor deny such underhanded activities. If we had spies, what would CCP do if they were caught and identified?

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"

Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#43 - 2016-04-09 10:58:04 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


That is wrong, and illegal in the majority of nations where this game is played. The fact CCP continues to allow this to happen is worrisome to say the least. I hope they step up and finally say enough is enough.


CCP can't prevent it, they can't even track that its happening, people are using external web services to facilitate this, i mean hell i could drop a funny cat picture in jita local and then immediately log all of the IP's of people who clicked the link, there is absolutely nothing CCP can do about this nor would they even know i was doing it, traffic logs are enabled on pretty much any web server and are useful for a great many things, i mean by default the server is told things like your IP, OS version, browser version and there are other things you can find out with the right sort of code, just look at things like cookies

But i digress, CCP can tell you that something is bad but they are unable to prove it happened and they are unable to tell if said thing is even going on
Zeikxx Oxone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2016-04-09 11:22:35 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
...and this is why deklein is burning.

:D

Weird, I'm not really having any issues ratting.
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#45 - 2016-04-09 12:02:59 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Goonswarm Federation and its non-playing members
ie all of them Lol
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2016-04-09 12:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Please keep in mind that Goonswarm is not only a space guild, but also an IT infrastructure. Comparing IP addresses is a basic strategy to identify double accounts, bots, spammers, or otherwise bad guys on any forum worth it's salt. It's not illegal and in my book it's also not immoral.

CCP will use this method as well to identify your main account if you do bad things with an alt for example, and then ban you.

Look at it the other way: A Spy in goonswarm will leak information from a non public forum and jabber to third parties. This also happens outside of the game, and were it not for the game, I'd consider this highly immoral, and probably illegal in some countries. If you think trying to find the guy by all means this infrastructure provides is immoral, please think again.

Using an IP address to confirm that someone is a certain user of your own IT infrastructure is not only legal (except maybe in Texas), as said user does freely provide his IP address to the services he uses, but also crucial to maintain a basic level of security. Welcome to the internet.
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#47 - 2016-04-09 12:59:46 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Please keep in mind that Goonswarm is not only a space guild, but also an IT infrastructure. Comparing IP addresses is a basic strategy to identify double accounts, bots, spammers, or otherwise bad guys on any forum worth it's salt. It's not illegal and in my book it's also not immoral.

CCP will use this method as well to identify your main account if you do bad things with an alt for example, and then ban you.

Look at it the other way: A Spy in goonswarm will leak information from a non public forum and jabber to third parties. This also happens outside of the game, and were it not for the game, I'd consider this highly immoral, and probably illegal in some countries. If you think trying to find the guy by all means this infrastructure provides is immoral, please think again.

Using an IP address to confirm that someone is a certain user of your own IT infrastructure is not only legal (except maybe in Texas), as said user does freely provide his IP address to the services he uses, but also crucial to maintain a basic level of security. Welcome to the internet.


Great I'm going to send IP loggers to random CFC director then Big smile
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2016-04-09 13:08:16 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
Great I'm going to send IP loggers to random CFC director then Big smile


The spy in question used the Goonswarm forum as his director persona, and he opened a document located on the same servers as his "whistleblower" persona, allowing for the two to be identified as the same user. No dedicated IP loggers were involved. But sure, if you feel like it, go ahead. I think you overestimate what you can do with an IP address.

If you want, I'll let you know mine. Just send an Eve-Mail.
Oracle of Machina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2016-04-09 13:16:37 UTC
The decision to broadcast the IP address of the spy in question was actually the thing that crossed the line here. There was no reason that information should have been made public, period.
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#50 - 2016-04-09 13:20:08 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
I think you overestimate what you can do with an IP address.


The guy who took down eve networks few days ago had not the same opinions
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2016-04-09 13:21:52 UTC
Oracle of Machina wrote:
The decision to broadcast the IP address of the spy in question was actually the thing that crossed the line here. There was no reason that information should have been made public, period.


That is indeed a bit flaky. It's nothing CCP or anyone but the victim can do anything about, though. If he feels he has been wronged, he can bring it before a court. But then he'll have to explain what he was doing there as well.

It's a bit like suing someone for assault after breaking into his home - possible, but most likely not the smartest thing to do.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2016-04-09 13:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Aaron Honk wrote:
The guy who took down eve networks few days ago had not the same opinions


Yet, the IP of the server is publicly known. See - the internet does not work without IP addresses. Communication cannot happen and a service will not work unless the IP addresses of both the client and the server are known to each other.

It's not finding out IP addresses that's a problem, it's what you do with them. Finding out that someone has a certain IP address is not a problem, neither is using that IP to identify someone breaking the rules. Flooding said IP with requests till the connection cannot keep up is. Now - if that had happened, though, this would be a topic for the law authorities, not for CCP or the Eve community. But it has not.

It's like if you came to me and said "Hi, I'm John Doe" and I was all like "Oh, you are the same John Doe that always keeps sending me creepy stalker loveletters, get the **** away from me!".

Simply by posting here, you make your IP address known to the people running this forum (CCP), and they will use it to identify you if they have reason to believe you are in violation of their rules somewhere. And it's likely somewhere in the Terms of Service you agreed to as well, same as it is on the Goonswarm Webservices:

Quote:
Log files are maintained and analysed of all requests for files on this website's web servers. Log files do not capture personal information but do capture the user's IP address, which is automatically recognised by our web servers.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2016-04-09 13:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Eli Apol wrote:
...and this is why deklein is burning.

:D

you should then look at the link provided in 2nd page (or it was 1st?) where youtube video tells the story about password shenigans by PL.... And then you should find the place PL is in and burn it too.

It's only if you really into white knigthing Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2016-04-09 13:51:38 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Oracle of Machina wrote:
The decision to broadcast the IP address of the spy in question was actually the thing that crossed the line here. There was no reason that information should have been made public, period.


That is indeed a bit flaky. It's nothing CCP or anyone but the victim can do anything about, though. If he feels he has been wronged, he can bring it before a court. But then he'll have to explain what he was doing there as well.

Well In Europe your IP counts as a personal info. He had every right to do what he did, legally, but in Germany posting his IP would be a crime. Goonswarm isn't a business so there are no business infos. I have no problems with identifying some traitor while both are using out of game programs but posting the IP was simply wrong!
BTW: I think it's really bad style to post private logs. As the name tells you, they are not for the public without both sides accepting it.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2016-04-09 13:54:15 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
BTW: I think it's really bad style to post private logs. As the name tells you, they are not for the public without both sides accepting it.

Well... it's very popular in Reddis to post 'private' chats

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Cherril
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2016-04-09 13:57:34 UTC
hey Mario, (et al.)

RL could be "lowsec" sometimes. Everyone concerned should be aware of that and take measures.

Don't like or want to patronize you or someone else, but be careful on your digital footprint.

Cherril
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2016-04-09 14:02:50 UTC
a bit off-topic:

when connecting to Ventrilo / TS / Mumble server you provide your real IP address to server holder. That passes through many conventional methods to hide your IP address.

so Blink think twice when your CORP insist on voicecomms attendance.

EVE voice is safe!

cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2016-04-09 14:03:59 UTC
Now this is a juicy thread indeed.

I for one do not particularly like the goons but I have respect for them, they are a cunning group at times. What they did to oust the traitor was fair play in my opinion but the sharing and posting of I.P addresses is a dirty tactic for sure.

Then again its the goons, are they not infamous for this sort of thing?

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......

Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#59 - 2016-04-09 14:08:46 UTC
lol (and I mean that) This is why you don't trust third party websites unless sanctioned by CCP

since CCP has a business contract with us, their staff cannot be involved in leaking our information

if they do they are pecuniarily libel and subject to legal action - with a digital footprint they cannot erase

Why do you think that Mittani site exists? Who are these Reddit people? Do they owe you security?

CCP does. They're under contract to you.

Wander away at your own risk.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.

Josef Djugashvilis
#60 - 2016-04-09 14:10:54 UTC
Zeikxx Oxone wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
...and this is why deklein is burning.

:D

Weird, I'm not really having any issues ratting.


Yet...Big smile

This is not a signature.