Ships & Modules

I'm trying to figure out what the most worthwhile upgrade from my current (and old :P) Incursion-fit Hurricane (yes, I know, old and rusty, but it's only seen some minor fitting adjustments since I first flew it and hits frigs pretty bloody hard).




Here are the catches though:

1. I do not have ANY T2 large gun types trained. T2 large projectiles are still a couple of months away due to my current plan being INT/MEM. I have all turret supports except Controlled Bursts to IV though.
2. The only battleship skill I have is Min BS IV. Marauders are not an option (yet) due to the lack of AWU V as well.
3. I do not have any cruisers to V yet either, so T2 cruisers are not yet an option. Minmatar Cruiser V is, again, a couple months out, which would allow me to get in a Loki after a few days of subsystem mop up. I will also be training Logistics at that point in time.
4. Cash is not an objection, but gank risk is. (Things that stand the risk of causing killboard WTFs when they explode are clearly a non-starter here.)
5. I generally don't shoot faction ammo for PvE due to the sheer quantity of ammo autocannons consume. (I guess I'm still scarred from the time I ran an entire constellation in Insmother out of Fusion M!)
6. Any such ship and all its fittings should be readily available on the market/contracts from whatever major hub (Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, or Rens) is nearest (things that are rare enough that you can only find them in Jita are NOT allowed)

Should I just wait until I can fly the Loki well enough for Incursion work as a long-range webber? Or should I wait until I can get into the Scimitar? Or should I take a break from INT/MEM stuff and train off-remap for something shinier now (or very soon)? Would a Cynabal be a viable choice? (I could crosstrain into it without too much delay, just need Gallente Cruiser.)

Will do, at least partially. I plan to finish my INT/MEM subs this upcoming week actually (just got to polish off Signal Dispersion IV and tackle Graviton Physics IV first).


Aye. Lokis are mean enough all-around that I'd get one just for PvP (they are one of the most terrifying opponents any frigate pilot can face in PvP, and fit very well into high-end armor T3/logi doctrines too, as well as being useful for frig-plucking in blops gangs and small W-space cloaky-T3 gangs alongside say Tengus or Proteuses).

Cruiser V is one of the first things I plan to train on my Perc/Will remap. I already have the INT/MEM supports for all the Minmatar T2 cruisers except the Broadsword (which is why I am training Graviton Physics and will be maxing Propulsion Jamming).

Yes. I already have Logistics Chief - Elite under my belt + all Standard & Improved Core certificates, Core Targeting - Elite, and all Improved Defense certificates, so Cruiser V and Logistics itself are the last missing pieces here. (That, and I may be picking up Energy Management V on my current remap, too.)

TL;DR: I'll stick with my current plans, Loki first in 2-3mo time then Scimi shortly thereafter.

This raises another question though. I got a 2nd remap off of the Christmas gift, so should I keep it saved for later, remap PERC/WIL short-order (after I finish Loki INT/MEM subs + Propulsion Jamming V) and save the rest of my INT/MEM train for after my long PERC/WIL run (where it'd go with jump drive and capital module skills), or burn it on a short-term CHA remap (Anchoring, a few leadership touch-ups, and some Ethnic Relations in case I ever get stuck being a CEO lol) after I finish out my full INT/MEM remap (which will include 5/4/4/4 Astrometrics skills and probably Energy Management V as well)?

Forget certs, forget corp skills, don't end up on a 12month int/mem remap.

I had my main and then my alt also in w-space pvp for a long time, a HIC was great but unless you don't already have someone with a char willing to be the regular pilot of one, they're only good for ganking stuff and minimal skill/fun to fly. Also a bit of a death trap once you have the bubble up & polarity, as you might not know that you can't be RRed while bubbling and it's not the shortest cycle timer. Don't use them with a clone you mind getting podded. I had my main able to fly them to move them, but my alt used them while my main's implants could help it in all the sexy T3s it was often in (not personally talking about Slaves etc here, but some +4s & 3-5%s add up and we aimed for minimal pve).

You talk a lot about frigs, can't says I ever ran into many in w-space except covops/bombers, and scorch wastes them frighteningly fast. Webs were best against all the pve T3s we hunted, and people gambling with fitting ABs rather than mwds for hole-oriented combat.

Any 'short term' Charisma remap probably wants to consider fleet bonuses & ganglinks. We briefly had a combat loki in gang with a single skirmish link for bonused tackle range, sure there was a tradeoff for him of warp or link when it came to combat away from the entrance hole's grid (can't give links while in warp), but it was sexy times tackling stuff with that thing up. You can of course also put links on cheap BCs like your cane. And command ships have mean combat and links varients.

Basically train for ships you want to fly, and have fun. In w-space it's smaller combat, so less likely to be just alpha'd, more likely to be able to use your hull's exact bonuses to best effect, and you'll probably want a logi/recon/t3 to hand asap at lvl4 support skills rather than a theoretically maxed one a few months later. The only exception is really don't fly a T3 without the (majority of the) SSs to 5s and all T2+modules.

There's a few varients on the theme as I see it, depend on what gang you're in and sites you're doing. This is middle of the road with options either side:

[Loki, incursions? pure pve arties pimped 3 webs alpha]

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Turret Concurrence Registry
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot M

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Dark Blood Stasis Webifier

Centum A-Type Energized Reactive Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Corpum A-Type Energized Magnetic Membrane

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II


With heat/links, these web out to your best tracking ammo's optimal of ~45km. You could trade the AB for a Sebo to keep up with legion locking/while rats are far out, and then you'd probably want the agility SS to help you bounce sites when contesting with your fat armour ass. Keeping the AB helps with your tank (EHP isn't the greatest), and avoiding having to reload ammo as you can dictate range & transversal on rats much better while using the higher dps closer ranged ammo (remember Quake/T2 short range for long guns ammo now has a tracking bonus). You might also want to swap 1 or more webs for TCs. I've not used this fit but flown with them in legion blitz fleets, if you're wanting to do more dps/NCOs, go with 425s and drones and the SS for them.

As for a shields fit, it's looking light on EHP (kin+explo resist mods, t2 thermal resist rig, ehp rigs) but that's where good blitz logis, ganglinks and shield RR coming in at the start of the cycle helps. Beyond that it's still got great resists, sig & speed (dictate transversal as required). Also there's a spare high for backup cap chaining it seems, you can scoot into range easily enough. You do have less mods for webbing & variable tracking/range, even if you can pack the lows with gyros/TEs.

Either way, you may want to use the old multiple sets of grouped weapons trick to avoid wasting alpha & ammo and get dps applied to the next surviving rat asap.

I would go for the loki, Battlecruisers are far to common and a good fleet will only toss them in if they have extra space. A T3 cruiser will increase the chances of getting in a good fleet by a long shot.