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Please reduce the number of SOV timers

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#481 - 2016-04-04 22:21:30 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
It absolutely is proof you are over extended though. CFC held at one point 8 regions as a 40K man group. This is ~5K dudes per region. Collectively that looks good on paper since there were no coalitions really capable of threatening the sov of CFC. But again if we look at ProviBloc, they had 15K dudes in one region, and still lost some timers over the brief war vs CFC.
Providence is an absolutely huge region for a start. Compare our systems/person to rusblock and you're having a laugh if you think we're overextended. I think they have 13 players per system last I checked, while SMA had around 100. Either way, losing systems itself is not a sign of overextension, it's simply a sign the other people had a stronger force. And sure, some parts of the Imperium may have been bloated for their alliances, and that's why the fell back in advance of being taken. SMA is not one of those groups.

Mario Putzo wrote:
By rights CFC should have been holding 3-4 regions, or about half of what they initially held before this conflict started. We know that defense in this situation is possible, ProviBloc has already shown us that 15K man coalition is capable of defending a single region against an overwhelming number of people arrayed against it. Had CFC consolidated into Dek/PB/Fade/Branch their ability to defense those regions would have been much much higher with 10K people per region.
Except they aren't. We were relatively new to the attacking of sov so there was a large amount of learning going on our side, and provi had everyone dog-piling in to defend them against the "evil goonies". I think during he entire campaign I saw a provi fleet like twice. The only thing that keeps Provi in their space is the same thing that's always kept them there, it's terrible space and noone wants it. The moment that changes they'll be gone.

Mario Putzo wrote:
CFC is losing this fight not because MBC has more dudes, not because FozzieSov generates timers, but because they did not have the capacity to defend what they laid claim to, and now it is too late for them to redeploy to save anything, had they consolidated months ago, they would likely have already bled out numbers from MBC because grinding into a defended sov provides much less of a morale boost then steam rolling through 5 regions in two weeks because the occupants would rather run than fight.
I'd say it's a bit early to be calling it losing. Most of BoB did their abandoning of sov before they started because they knew what was coming up. We're dealing with the war from fresh and with the whole CO2 thing so we're taking a bit of a hit but I have no doubt that once we find our footing we'll hammer our way though and BoB will realise how shockingly overconfident they are being.

Mario Putzo wrote:
ProviBloc 15K dudes 1 Region, successful defense vs 40K man coalition
CFC 40K dudes 8 Regions, abysmal failure vs 50K man coalition

Math isn't hard, 3-4 regions, leaning to the lesser side depending on the quality of you PVP core. Provi has proven with adequate numbers you can defend your space against a much larger foe.
Math may not be hard, but finding the correct figures apparently is. I'm gonna be laughing about you thinking Provi defended their space for some time.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#482 - 2016-04-04 22:56:44 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Sure, using small ships to harass has always and will always be a thing, but using a single small disposable ship to actually contest soc, that's new, and dumb.



Lucas Kell wrote:
That's because small groups who don't hold sov or don't care about the sov they hold aren't negatively impacted, so why would they complain? They get to cause a massive reaction and risk losing one ship to do it.


So it's not really new, and if it has always been a thing?

People kill miners all of the time, and don't care ores or even industry - it is just cause a reaction. And they use a disposable ship to do it. Why would sovereignty be exempt to what has been an accepted play style in just about any other facet of the game? Bonus points - goons have been one of the major proponents of this play style, it seems ironic to hear some of their pets complain about being on the receiving end.

If you want something in this game - you need to defend it. Or it can be taken from you, and the rest of us will laugh at your failure. That does not matter whether its a barge or an outpost or a region of space.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#483 - 2016-04-04 23:02:31 UTC
If this force was arrayed against the Imperium in Dominion sov, you would not be able to fight it.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#484 - 2016-04-04 23:06:04 UTC
GetSirrus wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Sure, using small ships to harass has always and will always be a thing, but using a single small disposable ship to actually contest soc, that's new, and dumb.


Lucas Kell wrote:
That's because small groups who don't hold sov or don't care about the sov they hold aren't negatively impacted, so why would they complain? They get to cause a massive reaction and risk losing one ship to do it.
So it's not really new, and if it has always been a thing?

People kill miners all of the time, and don't care ores or even industry - it is just cause a reaction. And they use a disposable ship to do it. Why would sovereignty be exempt to what has been an accepted play style in just about any other facet of the game? Bonus points - goons have been one of the major proponents of this play style, it seems ironic to hear some of their pets complain about being on the receiving end.

If you want something in this game - you need to defend it. Or it can be taken from you, and the rest of us will laugh at your failure. That does not matter whether its a barge or an outpost or a region of space.
If you read the quotes you'll see the difference right in there. Harassment is fine and yes has always been a thing, coming in ganking ratters, making people dock up, gatecamps, all of that. The difference now is that small groups who don't actually want sov can actually contest it and really don't have to lay anything on the line to do so, and worse still, dealing with that mechanic especially as a defender is incredibly boring. It's structure mining. The thing you don't seem to get is that as soon as the focus shifts from us to other players the same thing goes for everyone. Nothing stop as small gang harassing any group out of their sov. You see that it's bugging us so you support it, but that's an overly simplified view to have on such a widely used mechanic.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#485 - 2016-04-04 23:06:09 UTC
GetSirrus wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Sure, using small ships to harass has always and will always be a thing, but using a single small disposable ship to actually contest soc, that's new, and dumb.



Lucas Kell wrote:
That's because small groups who don't hold sov or don't care about the sov they hold aren't negatively impacted, so why would they complain? They get to cause a massive reaction and risk losing one ship to do it.


So it's not really new, and if it has always been a thing?



You could do harassement by hunting ratters/miners but not contest SOV itself. Nobody was going around SBUing a system with a T1 frig. They would not DPS down a station or an ihub either. You could always do "something" in small ship but not to the level you can now.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#486 - 2016-04-04 23:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Zappity wrote:
If this force was arrayed against the Imperium in Dominion sov, you would not be able to fight it.
Totally agree (or at least to the extent that we'd be doing the same as we are now*), which is why this force has nothing to do with the simple fact that entosis is dull as ****.

*Ed: Because to clarify I believe we can fight it this time too, and MBC are overly eager on declaring their victory.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
#487 - 2016-04-04 23:29:15 UTC
Jesus, I read the first two pages and next thing I know, BLAM, 23 pages of stuff to kill time with at work. This is fun.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#488 - 2016-04-05 00:14:10 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
DBRB whelping ceptor fleets and Digi hiding in the bushes across your street. Winet biomassed so we can't really mock him anymore since he's gonna go to ground.


The berb is the berb but you redditeurs have some ridiculous ideas about what our CI does

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#489 - 2016-04-05 01:20:13 UTC
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#490 - 2016-04-05 02:12:44 UTC
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#491 - 2016-04-05 10:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Andski wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
DBRB whelping ceptor fleets and Digi hiding in the bushes across your street. Winet biomassed so we can't really mock him anymore since he's gonna go to ground.


The berb is the berb but you redditeurs have some ridiculous ideas about what our CI does

because he totally didn't admit to doxxing?

http://puu.sh/cWAFh/e6112045cf.png

I mean wow, this is like the oldest news ever.

Full thread for us crazy redditors:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2mqcgs/digi_cfc_counterintel_guy_gets_banned_from_sa_for/

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#492 - 2016-04-05 10:34:13 UTC
Don't forget the hilarious years and years of logs kept to castigate people who leave.

I mean, you ever stop to think you're taking this all a bit too seriously?
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#493 - 2016-04-05 10:51:48 UTC
#kreepyfleet is recruiting

It'd be funny if it wasn't so true :(

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#494 - 2016-04-05 10:56:09 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
Ah, there's your problem. You've overextended and can't defend all your space, so it gets taken from you.
This has been said and debunked multiple times. Please go back and reread the thread and let me know once done. Ta.

You can call something "debunked" all you like, but you yourself admit you can't stop all the timers, which suggests that you've overextended. If you can't defend all your space, maybe it's better that it gets taken from you.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#495 - 2016-04-05 11:13:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Amyclas Amatin
It's almost like faction warfare. We go out and spin round nodes... Except we get ADM stuff so strategic ratting and mining to keep sov is suddenly a thing.

It is sh*t gameplay, but I have come back to drag the rest of the universe through that sh*t. We'll see who rusts first.

Edit: Also, man up OP. If this war were decided by decisive battles, we would lose. As it is, we suddenly get the chance to drag everyone through the mud with us in a Fozzie-sov bonanza!

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#496 - 2016-04-05 11:18:33 UTC
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
It's almost like faction warfare. We go out and spin round nodes... Except we get ADM stuff so strategic ratting and mining to keep sov is suddenly a thing.

It is sh*t gameplay, but I have come back to drag the rest of the universe through that sh*t. We'll see who rusts first.

It's more like

Fiction Warfare

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#497 - 2016-04-05 11:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
The sad thing is that even when it's baby titans and supers on the line rather than 'meaningless sov' CFC still won't come fight and accuses the other side of blueballing...whilst they're killing 100B of their assets in (edit) TWO a POSes.


So it doesn't matter what tools CCP gives us to initiate a fight, when one side wants to blueball, they blueball. Would have been exactly the same situation in dominion sov except the attacking would have been 100x slower and more tedious.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#498 - 2016-04-05 11:27:48 UTC
shut up your words are blah blah blah

you got a csaa be happy with it.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#499 - 2016-04-05 11:28:11 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
They don't want to hold space.

I would not call it success of Fozziesov if it is only cool for those who "don't want to hold space".

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#500 - 2016-04-05 11:31:53 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
The sad thing is that even when it's baby titans and supers on the line rather than 'meaningless sov' CFC still won't come fight and accuses the other side of blueballing...whilst they're killing 100B of their assets in (edit) TWO a POSes.


So it doesn't matter what tools CCP gives us to initiate a fight, when one side wants to blueball, they blueball. Would have been exactly the same situation in dominion sov except the attacking would have been 100x slower and more tedious.


You went to war with goons. Best decision in your EVE life. Enjoy the war.

For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/

Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"