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[Citadels] Carriers

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Gosch Ti
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2016-04-03 22:16:41 UTC
Can we please get shortcuts for the fighter tubes? Selecting everything with the mouse all the time leads to even more clicking.

And it would add a great deal of comfort just pressing 1-5 to select them as the abilities are bound to the f-keys already
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#182 - 2016-04-03 22:34:57 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Light Fighters', this provides a 5% velocity bonus per level and is required for the operation of light fighters.
  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Support Fighters', this provides a 5% hitpoint bonus per level and is required for the operation of support fighters.
  • The fighters skill now provides a 5% damage bonus per level and is required for the operation of all fighters.
    • [/list]

    All of these changes are on Sisi, and we'd appreciate you jumping on and helping to test them!
    [/list]


    So I got onto Sisi, fit up a carrier, bought the new fighters... and realized they all require Fighters 5, Light Fighters/Support Fighters 5 to use.

    Will all fighters require the Fighters and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters just to use in the first place on TQ?

    Either that was a while back when the requirements were incorrect or you bought the T2 versions. T1 fighters require Fighters 1 and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 1. Yes, all the fighters will require the new skills on TQ but not to 5 for T1.

    I really hope they rethink the requirements for T2 though. Having to train two 12x skills to 5 seems excessive. It seems like something more like Fighters 5, Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 4, and racial Drone Specialization 1 would be more reasonable.
    M1k3y Koontz
    Speaker for the Dead
    Stay Feral
    #183 - 2016-04-03 22:40:53 UTC
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    M1k3y Koontz wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Light Fighters', this provides a 5% velocity bonus per level and is required for the operation of light fighters.
  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Support Fighters', this provides a 5% hitpoint bonus per level and is required for the operation of support fighters.
  • The fighters skill now provides a 5% damage bonus per level and is required for the operation of all fighters.
    • [/list]

    All of these changes are on Sisi, and we'd appreciate you jumping on and helping to test them!
    [/list]


    So I got onto Sisi, fit up a carrier, bought the new fighters... and realized they all require Fighters 5, Light Fighters/Support Fighters 5 to use.

    Will all fighters require the Fighters and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters just to use in the first place on TQ?

    Either that was a while back when the requirements were incorrect or you bought the T2 versions. T1 fighters require Fighters 1 and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 1. Yes, all the fighters will require the new skills on TQ but not to 5 for T1.

    I really hope they rethink the requirements for T2 though. Having to train two 12x skills to 5 seems excessive. It seems like something more like Fighters 5, Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 4, and racial Drone Specialization 1 would be more reasonable.


    Welp, that fixes it. Thank you.

    I have Fighters, Light Fighters, and Support Fighters to 4 right now. If I wanted to get the T2 versions I would have to put in 3 months (96 days)? That does seem steep, especially when T2 capital guns will only take 1 7x skill (<30 days)

    How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #184 - 2016-04-04 01:03:14 UTC
    M1k3y Koontz wrote:
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    M1k3y Koontz wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Light Fighters', this provides a 5% velocity bonus per level and is required for the operation of light fighters.
  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Support Fighters', this provides a 5% hitpoint bonus per level and is required for the operation of support fighters.
  • The fighters skill now provides a 5% damage bonus per level and is required for the operation of all fighters.
    • [/list]

    All of these changes are on Sisi, and we'd appreciate you jumping on and helping to test them!
    [/list]


    So I got onto Sisi, fit up a carrier, bought the new fighters... and realized they all require Fighters 5, Light Fighters/Support Fighters 5 to use.

    Will all fighters require the Fighters and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters just to use in the first place on TQ?

    Either that was a while back when the requirements were incorrect or you bought the T2 versions. T1 fighters require Fighters 1 and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 1. Yes, all the fighters will require the new skills on TQ but not to 5 for T1.

    I really hope they rethink the requirements for T2 though. Having to train two 12x skills to 5 seems excessive. It seems like something more like Fighters 5, Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 4, and racial Drone Specialization 1 would be more reasonable.


    Welp, that fixes it. Thank you.

    I have Fighters, Light Fighters, and Support Fighters to 4 right now. If I wanted to get the T2 versions I would have to put in 3 months (96 days)? That does seem steep, especially when T2 capital guns will only take 1 7x skill (<30 days)


    another issue is there is not skill to get the extra little bit out of your fighters once you get the T2 :/

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
    CK-0FF
    Intergalactic Space Hobos
    #185 - 2016-04-04 01:33:34 UTC
    M1k3y Koontz wrote:
    I have Fighters, Light Fighters, and Support Fighters to 4 right now. If I wanted to get the T2 versions I would have to put in 3 months (96 days)? That does seem steep, especially when T2 capital guns will only take 1 7x skill (<30 days)

    Yeah, there's definitely something up with the training times. Carriers take significantly longer to train than dreads, and require an extra remap for maximum efficiency. For dreads, the hulls and weapons are both Perception/Willpower skills, while carriers have higher multipliers on both and the hulls are Perception/Willpower while the weapons are Memory/Perception. I know the fighter skills only need to be trained once and apply to every race, whereas turrets are race-specific and the Phoenix has a completely different set of support skill, but having fighter skills take so long on an odd remap is a bit of a pain. It also affects players working on their first carrier a lot more than those going for all 4.

    On the bright side (for those who haven't trained the skills yet) it seems like the "adequate" level of skills for carriers is going down a little. Instead of the Fighters skill giving 20% more damage per level and the hull giving 10%-20% per level (15.5%-26% per level for Thanatos), the Fighters skill only gives 5% per level and the hulls 0% or 5%, so there's a lot less need to have them at 5. Of course that also significantly devalues the training investment of pilots who already have the skills at 5...
    Primary This Rifter
    Mutual Fund of the Something
    #186 - 2016-04-04 01:44:38 UTC
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:
    So, carriers are essentially going to die (both figuratively and literally) in current future fleet meta. Dreads will outgun them (both in terms of fitting guns P and having a crap ton more dps) in in both subcap and capital engagements. Carriers are also now not only stripped of a role but also nerfed to **** when compared to dreads. CCP congrats on creating Dreads Online...

    Time to unsub my carriers pilots or some how get them into supers or faxes... no use now (based on the stats listed) for even undocking these piece of sh**s.

    Completely disappointed yet again in CCP...

    That might be a bit hasty. First of all, dreads don't really outgun carriers by that much against subcaps. On paper, once they get the skill bonuses fixed carriers will have 4000-5000 DPS when fully DPS fit. They're also better at hitting frigates and destroyers, as well as anything that gets super close. The fact that they can receive remote repairs also allows them to survive longer than dreads in larger engagements. That said, they do seem to be sort of lacking in certain ways, but CCP needs to fix the skill bonuses so we can see the true stats before figuring out how to use or balance them.

    Are they better than supers at doing any of these things?

    No.

    They're useless.
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
    CK-0FF
    Intergalactic Space Hobos
    #187 - 2016-04-04 02:16:50 UTC
    Primary This Rifter wrote:
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:
    So, carriers are essentially going to die (both figuratively and literally) in current future fleet meta. Dreads will outgun them (both in terms of fitting guns P and having a crap ton more dps) in in both subcap and capital engagements. Carriers are also now not only stripped of a role but also nerfed to **** when compared to dreads. CCP congrats on creating Dreads Online...

    Time to unsub my carriers pilots or some how get them into supers or faxes... no use now (based on the stats listed) for even undocking these piece of sh**s.

    Completely disappointed yet again in CCP...

    That might be a bit hasty. First of all, dreads don't really outgun carriers by that much against subcaps. On paper, once they get the skill bonuses fixed carriers will have 4000-5000 DPS when fully DPS fit. They're also better at hitting frigates and destroyers, as well as anything that gets super close. The fact that they can receive remote repairs also allows them to survive longer than dreads in larger engagements. That said, they do seem to be sort of lacking in certain ways, but CCP needs to fix the skill bonuses so we can see the true stats before figuring out how to use or balance them.

    Are they better than supers at doing any of these things?

    No.

    They're useless.

    Are dreads better than titans at doing any of these things?

    No.

    They're useless.


    Seriously though, it does seem a little annoying how supers can do everything a carrier can but better and a titan can do everything a dread can but better.
    Oxide Ammar
    #188 - 2016-04-04 04:54:07 UTC
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    M1k3y Koontz wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Light Fighters', this provides a 5% velocity bonus per level and is required for the operation of light fighters.
  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Support Fighters', this provides a 5% hitpoint bonus per level and is required for the operation of support fighters.
  • The fighters skill now provides a 5% damage bonus per level and is required for the operation of all fighters.
    • [/list]

    All of these changes are on Sisi, and we'd appreciate you jumping on and helping to test them!
    [/list]


    So I got onto Sisi, fit up a carrier, bought the new fighters... and realized they all require Fighters 5, Light Fighters/Support Fighters 5 to use.

    Will all fighters require the Fighters and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters just to use in the first place on TQ?

    Either that was a while back when the requirements were incorrect or you bought the T2 versions. T1 fighters require Fighters 1 and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 1. Yes, all the fighters will require the new skills on TQ but not to 5 for T1.

    I really hope they rethink the requirements for T2 though. Having to train two 12x skills to 5 seems excessive. It seems like something more like Fighters 5, Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 4, and racial Drone Specialization 1 would be more reasonable.


    From the look of it it looks like money grab skill (Injectors), adding some imaginary skill that needs you to lvl 5 to use T2 is absurd. Following the same logic on TQ any T2 ship/modules requires you to train basic skills to lvl 5 and the skill to use this T2 ship can be used at lvl 1 but if you wanna master it you need to level it to 5.

    So by same analogy it should be T1 fighters at level 1, T2 fighters at level 1 fo light fighters skills but make its requirement level 5 fighters which most of us have, same like when it goes to T2 cruise missile/ T2 hybrid guns....etc.

    It amaze me that no one complained about this from that start and it looks like they are going to release the patch as it is on SiSi.

    Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
    Primary This Rifter
    Mutual Fund of the Something
    #189 - 2016-04-04 07:24:49 UTC
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    Primary This Rifter wrote:
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:
    So, carriers are essentially going to die (both figuratively and literally) in current future fleet meta. Dreads will outgun them (both in terms of fitting guns P and having a crap ton more dps) in in both subcap and capital engagements. Carriers are also now not only stripped of a role but also nerfed to **** when compared to dreads. CCP congrats on creating Dreads Online...

    Time to unsub my carriers pilots or some how get them into supers or faxes... no use now (based on the stats listed) for even undocking these piece of sh**s.

    Completely disappointed yet again in CCP...

    That might be a bit hasty. First of all, dreads don't really outgun carriers by that much against subcaps. On paper, once they get the skill bonuses fixed carriers will have 4000-5000 DPS when fully DPS fit. They're also better at hitting frigates and destroyers, as well as anything that gets super close. The fact that they can receive remote repairs also allows them to survive longer than dreads in larger engagements. That said, they do seem to be sort of lacking in certain ways, but CCP needs to fix the skill bonuses so we can see the true stats before figuring out how to use or balance them.

    Are they better than supers at doing any of these things?

    No.

    They're useless.

    Are dreads better than titans at doing any of these things?

    No.

    They're useless.


    Seriously though, it does seem a little annoying how supers can do everything a carrier can but better and a titan can do everything a dread can but better.

    CCP seems to have a very selective imagination. Enough to radically change how capitals work, but not enough to differentiate them from each other.
    Sekeris
    Order of Celestial Knights
    #190 - 2016-04-04 08:23:21 UTC
    Forum ate my first post... so here is a new one with hopefully the same points

    This is probably the biggest issue at the moment:
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    Ok, after some testing I found the source of a significant number of fighter balance issues. It seems that even though skills say they affect fighters, most don't work properly yet. For example, Light Fighters and Support Fighters only give 5% total bonuses to speed/durability despite saying 5% per level. Also Drone Durability, Drone Interfacing, Drone Navigation, and probably Drone Sharpshooting have no effect at all on fighters. That means once the skills actually have their advertised effects, fighters will have roughly 50% more damage and speed, and 25% more durability at max skills.


    However i also found:


    • Nid fit room seems a bit wierd, less CPU and power then the Thanny, while Minmatar aims for shield now mostly. It needs more CPU. Overall Thanny and Nid appear to be secondary choise due to EHP and fit (Archon is more tank & more dmg atm)
    • Allign times seem sluggish compared to live
    • Fighters could be really expensive if you start losing lots of them.
    • Related to that is long range travel time, if you are away from the fight which seems to be the new idea the ~1100 m/s is slow. This will also mean that without mwd they will not capture much.
    • No sheet DPS
    • Using support fighters loses you too much dps. They should have thier own tube
    • Flavor difference on dmg per fighter and differences between carrier look a little willy nilly. Overall applied DPS possibly the same, not managed to test.
    • Market faction mods dont properly split out.
    • Drone dmg augs have no stacking penalty?

    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
    CK-0FF
    Intergalactic Space Hobos
    #191 - 2016-04-04 08:35:14 UTC
    Sekeris wrote:
    Forum ate my first post... so here is a new one with hopefully the same points

    This is probably the biggest issue at the moment:
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    Ok, after some testing I found the source of a significant number of fighter balance issues. It seems that even though skills say they affect fighters, most don't work properly yet. For example, Light Fighters and Support Fighters only give 5% total bonuses to speed/durability despite saying 5% per level. Also Drone Durability, Drone Interfacing, Drone Navigation, and probably Drone Sharpshooting have no effect at all on fighters. That means once the skills actually have their advertised effects, fighters will have roughly 50% more damage and speed, and 25% more durability at max skills.


    However i also found:


    • Nid fit room seems a bit wierd, less CPU and power then the Thanny, while Minmatar aims for shield now mostly. It needs more CPU. Overall Thanny and Nid appear to be secondary choise due to EHP and fit (Archon is more tank & more dmg atm)
    • Allign times seem sluggish compared to live
    • Fighters could be really expensive if you start losing lots of them.
    • Related to that is long range travel time, if you are away from the fight which seems to be the new idea the ~1100 m/s is slow. This will also mean that without mwd they will not capture much.
    • No sheet DPS
    • Using support fighters loses you too much dps. They should have thier own tube
    • Flavor difference on dmg per fighter and differences between carrier look a little willy nilly. Overall applied DPS possibly the same, not managed to test.
    • Market faction mods dont properly split out.
    • Drone dmg augs have no stacking penalty?


    The fighter price shouldn't be too bad. When the patch hits, each fighter will become 6 light fighters and each fighter bomber will become 4 heavy fighters.
    1100 speed isn't quite right. They'll have about 50% more speed when skills apply properly. Still a bit on the slow side, but a lot better.
    The differences in fighter damage and speed are supposed to mirror normal drones for each faction.
    Faction mods need to be in the main market category or they wouldn't be seeded on SiSi.

    Agreed on the rest of the points.
    Sgt Ocker
    What Corp is it
    #192 - 2016-04-04 09:13:04 UTC
    Oxide Ammar wrote:
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    M1k3y Koontz wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Light Fighters', this provides a 5% velocity bonus per level and is required for the operation of light fighters.
  • A new skill is being introduced called 'Support Fighters', this provides a 5% hitpoint bonus per level and is required for the operation of support fighters.
  • The fighters skill now provides a 5% damage bonus per level and is required for the operation of all fighters.
    • [/list]

    All of these changes are on Sisi, and we'd appreciate you jumping on and helping to test them!
    [/list]


    So I got onto Sisi, fit up a carrier, bought the new fighters... and realized they all require Fighters 5, Light Fighters/Support Fighters 5 to use.

    Will all fighters require the Fighters and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters just to use in the first place on TQ?

    Either that was a while back when the requirements were incorrect or you bought the T2 versions. T1 fighters require Fighters 1 and Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 1. Yes, all the fighters will require the new skills on TQ but not to 5 for T1.

    I really hope they rethink the requirements for T2 though. Having to train two 12x skills to 5 seems excessive. It seems like something more like Fighters 5, Light/Support/Heavy Fighters 4, and racial Drone Specialization 1 would be more reasonable.


    From the look of it it looks like money grab skill (Injectors), adding some imaginary skill that needs you to lvl 5 to use T2 is absurd. Following the same logic on TQ any T2 ship/modules requires you to train basic skills to lvl 5 and the skill to use this T2 ship can be used at lvl 1 but if you wanna master it you need to level it to 5.

    So by same analogy it should be T1 fighters at level 1, T2 fighters at level 1 fo light fighters skills but make its requirement level 5 fighters which most of us have, same like when it goes to T2 cruise missile/ T2 hybrid guns....etc.

    It amaze me that no one complained about this from that start and it looks like they are going to release the patch as it is on SiSi.
    3 rank 12 skills to lvl 5 to use new fighters?
    Someone in the dev teams doesn't want people flying carriers.

    Skills should be;
    Drone interfacing 5 + Fighters 1 = all T1 fighters
    Fighters 5 + Light Fighters 1 = T2 Light Fighters
    Fighters 5 + Support Fighters 1 = T2 Support Fighters


    My opinions are mine.

      If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

    It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
    Sekeris
    Order of Celestial Knights
    #193 - 2016-04-04 09:59:30 UTC
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    The fighter price shouldn't be too bad. When the patch hits, each fighter will become 6 light fighters and each fighter bomber will become 4 heavy fighters.
    1100 speed isn't quite right. They'll have about 50% more speed when skills apply properly. Still a bit on the slow side, but a lot better.
    The differences in fighter damage and speed are supposed to mirror normal drones for each faction.
    Faction mods need to be in the main market category or they wouldn't be seeded on SiSi.

    Agreed on the rest of the points.


    Initial purchase maybe, but keep in mind that counter fighters disable the drives to slow them down of fighters so if your away from your squadrons by any reasonable distance your stuffed for that squad. So thats 9 of them lost i would assume.

    Speed is still problematic, since most player ships will be about to outrun em. Perhaps the counter fighters should be quicker and do reduced dmg to smaller hulls. Again could be they do, did not test that.

    Good point on the faction mods. Didnt think about that.
    Mena en Distel
    Critically Disrupted
    #194 - 2016-04-04 10:02:21 UTC
    M1k3y Koontz wrote:


    Welp, that fixes it. Thank you.

    I have Fighters, Light Fighters, and Support Fighters to 4 right now. If I wanted to get the T2 versions I would have to put in 3 months (96 days)? That does seem steep, especially when T2 capital guns will only take 1 7x skill (<30 days)

    Oh whats about siege V hah?
    Sekeris
    Order of Celestial Knights
    #195 - 2016-04-04 12:23:17 UTC
    Mena en Distel wrote:
    M1k3y Koontz wrote:


    Welp, that fixes it. Thank you.

    I have Fighters, Light Fighters, and Support Fighters to 4 right now. If I wanted to get the T2 versions I would have to put in 3 months (96 days)? That does seem steep, especially when T2 capital guns will only take 1 7x skill (<30 days)

    Oh whats about siege V hah?


    Just T2 fighters doesnt cover the carrier either, you will also need the drone support skills (once they work), and you could include the hull etc.. But yes, quick skill plan shows that both routes will be ~equal time from a mostly fresh char. Having to train for 60 days for skills i now have at 5 is a bit sour though.
    Sekeris
    Order of Celestial Knights
    #196 - 2016-04-04 15:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sekeris
    So some further testing shooting with and at my own squadrons, before skill bug fix.

    If you try to MWD a srambled squadron it gives a full screen pop up. This should be a notice in log and/or the fight squad should show a 'debuff' below its status.
    Trying to activate weapons on the squadron when that squadron is targeted returns a error saying the solar system it was target at is no longer present.
    Fighter squardons yield a kill main. This kill mail will have 1 fighter worth of HP noted. Nifty, but bad for ISK war Pirate

    Also for fighter v fighter combat:

    Space superiority fighters (SSF) work well against frigs and destroyers, showing 222 dmg v 262 for light fighters.
    Both have no problem hitting. Not seen a single miss in the limited testing i did.
    SSF move ~300 m/s faster, and slower under evasive maneuvers (~3500)
    SSF kill 1 fighter per volley (at 2441 dmg/hit, 3 sec cycle time), and can murder a whole squad with barely a dent on thier own squad, shield did not drop below 95%.
    This means that in some 30 seconds you will lose 20-30 mil worth of fighters.

    Longer engagement this could become pretty costly. Looking at the drone bay CCP anticipates a decent loss rate. I would say the current health pool is far to small, or the dps is way to high for the SSF. Anywhere over 40 km (60-70 if speed is fixed) from the carrier you will lose the full light fighter squadron without the carrier being able to do anything.

    SSF v SSF squadron will whipe out eachother. Even when 4-6 fighters are down they will still 1 shot on the other squadron. This means the first carrier to click evasive maneuvers wins that fight, but still will lose probably half the sqaudron (dmg reduction is 60%).

    Edit: Stack of 10 and stack of 8 dont combine automaticly to load one full squadron, you have to 'stack all' first,
    m'Kor
    The Ruckus
    #197 - 2016-04-04 15:53:54 UTC
    Is there any chance of looking at jump ranges for carriers? Possibly a "jump range extender" module that increases your max jump range (with JDC5) to 8 or 10 LY, but makes you unable to refit in space, or launch fighters/enable offensive modules for 30 minutes (or some other arbitrary amount)?
    FT Diomedes
    The Graduates
    #198 - 2016-04-04 16:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    Primary This Rifter wrote:
    Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
    Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:
    So, carriers are essentially going to die (both figuratively and literally) in current future fleet meta. Dreads will outgun them (both in terms of fitting guns P and having a crap ton more dps) in in both subcap and capital engagements. Carriers are also now not only stripped of a role but also nerfed to **** when compared to dreads. CCP congrats on creating Dreads Online...

    Time to unsub my carriers pilots or some how get them into supers or faxes... no use now (based on the stats listed) for even undocking these piece of sh**s.

    Completely disappointed yet again in CCP...

    That might be a bit hasty. First of all, dreads don't really outgun carriers by that much against subcaps. On paper, once they get the skill bonuses fixed carriers will have 4000-5000 DPS when fully DPS fit. They're also better at hitting frigates and destroyers, as well as anything that gets super close. The fact that they can receive remote repairs also allows them to survive longer than dreads in larger engagements. That said, they do seem to be sort of lacking in certain ways, but CCP needs to fix the skill bonuses so we can see the true stats before figuring out how to use or balance them.

    Are they better than supers at doing any of these things?

    No.

    They're useless.

    Are dreads better than titans at doing any of these things?

    No.

    They're useless.


    Seriously though, it does seem a little annoying how supers can do everything a carrier can but better and a titan can do everything a dread can but better.


    And a Titan is just as disposable as a Dreadnought too, right? That's why they get used so often? The useless ship here is not the Capital, it's the Supercapital.

    CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #199 - 2016-04-04 16:18:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
    so i just did the math 3 mill for one t1 light fighter ? thats 89 3 flights

    and you have 3 flights of T2 at 189 mill

    so a thanny needs to hold 609mill (if it goes all light fighters) thats over half the cost of the hull

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble
    Lugh Crow-Slave
    #200 - 2016-04-04 16:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
    FT Diomedes wrote:


    And a Titan is just as disposable as a Dreadnought too, right? That's why they get used so often? The useless ship here is not the Capital, it's the Supercapital.


    with that logic T2 should be 100% better than t1 and battle ships should be better in every way to a frig

    no each class should have a role that it does better than any other

    and each ship in that class should do it in a way that is different

    titans will still have uses over dreads w/o being better with HAW and supercarriers will still have uses over carriers even if they are not better with light fighters

    BLOPS Hauler
    The 16.8km Bubble