Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The weapon system is utterly garbage, its used literally no where in pvp, it totally sucks. It needs a buff.

I support buffing it a little bit, however, at the same time it should never be as powerful as it used to be.

Only about 33% without a prop mod assuming you are shooting at cruisers.
But if someone came to me and said "I've designed a missile to shoot at cruisers, and it will apply about 2/3rds it's damage to them if they have no afterburner" I'd have sent them back to the drawing board, and not paid them for the design.

They got a straight damage buff a while back. Caracals, cerbs and sacs use them plenty. Perhaps the problem is they just suck on drakes?

Medium beams see less use than hml's.

May I ask you for your help on the math here? I am training a lot on SiSi and since I can remember the damage values I am doing, the blue onesm but since I am bad at counting, I need some help.

So speaking of a turret boat with my beloved medium beam lasers and the mighty Orthrus which I encounter often, how much % are 700 of 1100 damage and speaking of a heavy missile boat, how much % is ~270 of 1536 damage?

Maybe someone knows, I am better at calculus, my apologies.

The problem isnt as much that medium beam and railguns are to strong (they arent really, only in comparison to hmls) its that hmls suck compared to everything.

They do about the same sustained damage as rlmls - 7 hmls with faction ammo have the same sustained dps as 7 rlmls with t2 ammo (im using t2 on rlmls because they still apply, unlike t2 hmls).

And thats with reload factored in, the burst and application makes the rlmls massively better,


Not to mention that hmls have absurdly low damage as is. A full rack of hmls on a drake with faction scourge deals 237 dps (with reload factored in but vOv), Now you might say thats ok cause a beam harbi deals at the same range 237dps - but the beam harby can swap ammo (and also is irrelevant due to scorch).

The cerb, caracal, orthrus and similar are all better off with rlmls, without those theyd be flat out useless ships (maybe not in giant fleet fights, but solo and small scale).


Hmls do no damage, they apply like **** (if using t2 ammo the drake doesnt even apply to itself paper dps), they eat a shitload of fititng.


In the current very fast and small meta they just totally suck. But they even sucked before. A hml drake or caracal right now is literally worse then a beam confessor in terms of damage and application. And thats without factoring in links, which massively worsen their application due to the speed and sig link.



And its not like they are even that good in pve.

Im short, hmls need a application buff (a big one) and another damage buff (a small one). A hmls ship should apply 90% of its faction hml dps to a double webbed t1 frigate using its mwd. And not 40% or so.

Rhmls are a totally different weapon system, you dont compare lmls to rlmls.

But yes, rlmls need a nerf. And hmls need a buff.


Also, im not saying that a double webbed frigate as such should eat 90% of the damage, but a mwding frigate with double web (i.e with giant sig bloom) should take that much.

you cant buff the application of hml's without buffing the application of rhml's.

HAMs dont deal 90% damage to a double webbed mwd frig. Doubt your gonna get that kind of application from heavies. Surely thats what rlml's are for anyways.

HML is basicly where it was before the nerf damage wise give or take 1-3% in dps the original intent they had on nerfing HML was to limit the drake blob meta where HML was over powered with noobs in drakes doing sustained dps at range ofc. (then they give drake a 25% missile velocity bonus lol)

over all HML is not much different if u fly a ship with bonus to range tengu gets 600-840 dps easy with fury out to 70 km (87 km with a single missile computer range scripted) and is still easy mode at lvl 4's and other pve tasks. tho if u take a nighthawk out with HML fury are gimped at 47 km with out fitting a ton of missile comps gimping your tank,ewar and dmg mods slots.

tho CCP logic is kinda flawed since HML is saposed to be on par with rails/beams/arty as a ranged weapon and requires a tengu, cerb, or caracal for the proper ranges.



HML dont need an application buff anyway and RHML's are for cruiser/bc targets anyway RLML are used for frigs. if u want application on HML u fly a ship with a bonus to it such as navy drake or use t1/faction/precision in place of fury. or bring a buddy in a minny recon (or t1 varient) for painters with hull bonus.

The nature of missiles vs turrets will never make everyone happy. They cant be compared in a way that suits everyone. Leading to some disingenuous comments.

@ ginger sith.
Missiles deal more damage at range. Turrets deal more damage close up. Turrets apply damage better at range. Missiles apply damage better up close. Missiles apply damage irrespective of the shooters piloting but are also simple to mitigate (fly fast).Turrets depend on shooters piloting vs target piloting.

It should be plain to see why this is a balancing nightmare. Its like comparing apples and oranges. We could be right on the money but some people's opinions will still differ (even when it comes to applying 90% damage to a double webbed mwd frig).

@ nevyn
Assuming all else is equal, a target can just as easily maneuver to mitigate damage from a turret as a shooter can to increase it. It really depends on the circumstances.

Both pilots could web and scram eachother down and deal full damage with missiles to eachother, but be so close that they'd miss eachother with turrets.