These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Bellicose
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dante Graydon
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#1 - 2016-03-29 10:17:11 UTC
On another toon I was flying through syndicate today in my little Breacher when I was attacked and killed by a sabre and a caracal. I was thinking what would be "fun" to take back at take them on, I was thinking of a Bellicose. The fit I was thinking about it below, ill explain my choices and would love to hear peoples opinions on it and if not good then why (forget that a Bellicose is prob not optimal against those ships in the 1st place.

[Bellicose, Solo Bellicose]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
IFFA Compact Damage Control

10MN Afterburner II
J5 Enduring Warp Disruptor
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 100
Initiated Compact Warp Scrambler
Kapteyn Compact Sensor Dampener, Targeting Range Dampening Script

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Light Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5

Bearing in mind they were gate camping and they bubbled me. If I had been in this ship I would target both ships and put the drones on the sabre and the missiles and damps on the Caracal (I think he was about 28 off me), burn towards the caracal and put the disputor on him and then the scram when closer, I would also put the diruptor ont he caracal but not sure if the targeting range or scan resolution script would be better (or run unscripted).

The Fury Missiles do Thermal Damage as I am assumning that the EM hole is plugged.

Is this good thinking or am I missing something/a lot here, according to PYFA I am doing 191 DPS witht hmissiles (806 Volley) and drones do 99, but I would have put them on the sabre (perhaps a bad move, perhaps everything on the caracal as their main DPS ship)?
Futt Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-04-01 00:50:56 UTC
A single unbonused sensor damp is useless. The bellicose is also trash, and worse in virtually every way compared to the caracal. If you're lucky, you'll kill the sabre before dying.

Or perhaps you won't, since your mids are shitfitted. A single MASB is not a tanky cruiser make.
Madrax573
Doomheim
#3 - 2016-04-01 01:15:25 UTC
Try this.

[Bellicose, PVP]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Warp Disruptor II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hornet II x5
Hornet II x3

I have had great success with this setup with a previous toon. I originally fitted a Caracal in almost the identical fit and the DPS/Tank is within a couple of points. The damage is more split between missiles/drones on this compared to the Caracal but this is faster and has slightly less sig (not a big difference tbh)

However people don't expect this to be anywhere near the caracal in terms of performance and it can surprise. I've munched 5-6 people small frig gangs with this fit. It will probably need some tweaks to suit your personal flying style but hey it cheap as to lose a few figuring it out.
Kethen T'val
Dontopiax Mining Inc.
#4 - 2016-04-01 18:32:57 UTC
Why not try something completely unexpected. If you must use a Belli, why not a fast brawler. MAR+MAAR+ resists for lows.

Mids: Cap inject+mwd and full tackle.

HAMs if you can fit them. Otherwise, RLM.

Dont forget your pills.

Also running or killing the sabre off field first should be a priority.
Jamie Stavax
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-04-01 19:24:34 UTC
Madrax573 wrote:
Try this.

[Bellicose, PVP]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Warp Disruptor II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hornet II x5
Hornet II x3

I have had great success with this setup with a previous toon. I originally fitted a Caracal in almost the identical fit and the DPS/Tank is within a couple of points. The damage is more split between missiles/drones on this compared to the Caracal but this is faster and has slightly less sig (not a big difference tbh)

However people don't expect this to be anywhere near the caracal in terms of performance and it can surprise. I've munched 5-6 people small frig gangs with this fit. It will probably need some tweaks to suit your personal flying style but hey it cheap as to lose a few figuring it out.


Why the ACR? I tried fitting it in Pyfa and didn' t seem to need it.. ?
Dante Graydon
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#6 - 2016-04-01 21:55:42 UTC
Thanks for all the advise people, ill alter the fit slightly and see how I fair
Madrax573
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-04-02 13:22:22 UTC
Jamie Stavax wrote:
Madrax573 wrote:
Try this.

[Bellicose, PVP]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Warp Disruptor II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hornet II x5
Hornet II x3

I have had great success with this setup with a previous toon. I originally fitted a Caracal in almost the identical fit and the DPS/Tank is within a couple of points. The damage is more split between missiles/drones on this compared to the Caracal but this is faster and has slightly less sig (not a big difference tbh)

However people don't expect this to be anywhere near the caracal in terms of performance and it can surprise. I've munched 5-6 people small frig gangs with this fit. It will probably need some tweaks to suit your personal flying style but hey it cheap as to lose a few figuring it out.


Why the ACR? I tried fitting it in Pyfa and didn' t seem to need it.. ?


Probably because this toon isn't as skilled as my previous one vOv. If it doesn't need it then even more useful :)
Dante Graydon
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#8 - 2016-04-04 13:42:56 UTC
I took a couple out after changing the fit.

The first died to a Vengeance and I remember thinking wtf, why did it die to a vengeance, but when I saw the KM there was a Omen NI on the kill too so I guess I am just terribad for not even know that it was there.

The second died to a Jackdaw, although a VNI did get in on that kill too.

Apart from my flying which was obviously dire, I think that the cap is very poor, I think it comes in at under a minute (with both armour reps on) which isnt much time, my theory with the vengeance was to use the web and scram to hold him off me but the reality was that he scram/webbed me in return and then he called his buddy who warped in and killed me off.

Thing is that the range on a web II is only 10km so how do you counter that?, I wonder if I should have put a disruptor on him early if cut his MWD and tried to stay within disruptor range but out of his scram/web range and pepper with missile, then when his ONI buddy turned up I could of just GTFO?

What tactics should you use?
ARES-DESIDERATUS
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-04-04 16:44:41 UTC
The Bellicose is like a Caracal, but faster and with less tank and damage. If you take a Bellicose to null sec, your only hope is to kill frigates and destroyers. I wouldn't really bother trying to take on cruisers with it to be honest.

[Bellicose]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II
Large Shield Extender II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile

Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2

If you use something like this, you will be able to escape from most gate camps by overheating micro warp drive and burning back to the gate, or burning away from the enemy fleet. But your best bet for avoiding getting blobbed is to just avoid high-traffic ares; take the safer detours, the backdoor routes.

Bellicose is bonused to target painters, and since target painters work past 50km, whereas webs only work at 10km, target painters should be your ewar of choice, they work at all reasonable ranges and fit perfectly with your rapid light missile range.

The good thing about this is if you get scrammed you will still be doing damage, cause they can't just orbit up close like they would do against turrets, so your damage will always be applying. Just do as much damage as possible until the frigate scrams you, and hope for the best. You might be able to kill bad interceptors and interdictors if you get good.

You could fit an anti-em screen but I don't really see the point. If your tank is breaking in this it's going to break with or without shield rigs, the extender is there just to give you enough buffer to survive gatecamps and stuff and hopefully give you enough time to get a kill if you end up in a fight. speed and agility would be where the battle is won, your prey would be frigate and destroyer sized ships, you actually could potentially kill T3Ds with this fit, depending on their fit and how bad they are.

Don't like my post.
Madrax573
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-04-04 22:44:12 UTC
Dante Graydon wrote:
I took a couple out after changing the fit.

The first died to a Vengeance and I remember thinking wtf, why did it die to a vengeance, but when I saw the KM there was a Omen NI on the kill too so I guess I am just terribad for not even know that it was there.

The second died to a Jackdaw, although a VNI did get in on that kill too.

Apart from my flying which was obviously dire, I think that the cap is very poor, I think it comes in at under a minute (with both armour reps on) which isnt much time, my theory with the vengeance was to use the web and scram to hold him off me but the reality was that he scram/webbed me in return and then he called his buddy who warped in and killed me off.

Thing is that the range on a web II is only 10km so how do you counter that?, I wonder if I should have put a disruptor on him early if cut his MWD and tried to stay within disruptor range but out of his scram/web range and pepper with missile, then when his ONI buddy turned up I could of just GTFO?

What tactics should you use?


If you use my fit the range issue isn't an issue. RLML hit out past 37km and will smack frigs just nicely if you have decent missile support skills.

Also the idea is identical to the caracal kiting cruiser. It will murder frig gangs and T1 destroyer gangs.

The web on my fit is for defense. OH it to get the 13km range and use it if anything is getting close to get tackle on you. Use MASB once your shield drop to about 1/3 to replenish. By then if you need it you regain your buffer to see you through the MASB reload (hopefully)

Armour tanked Belli just doesn't do the damage and like you noticed the cap isn't all that good for it so use ASB's and cap charges.
Dante Graydon
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#11 - 2016-04-06 12:20:44 UTC
ARES-DESIDERATUS and Madrax573 thanks for the following up, Ill try again. Madrax573 I had not chosen your fit, but will do so next time.
Dante Graydon
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#12 - 2016-04-17 08:44:34 UTC
Madrax573
I fitted a Bellicose out as you suggested

[Bellicose, PVP]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Warp Disruptor II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hornet II x5
Hornet II x3

I went out to Tenal to do some hunting and was hanging about 100km off a gate to see what would come in, My thinking here was that whilst I was not on the gate if a ship came into system and started burning towards me, I could assess if I could attack it or not plus if he had fiends on the other side they would have to jump in and burn towards us rather than obliterate me on gate.

A vagabond jumped in and started burning towards me so I warped off 100 from a planet, he of course followed but was too far off, but this time there was a Wolf with him. I warped at 70 to a gate and they were lucky as we all kinda landed at the same time and they were 5k off me.

I locked both the vaga and the wolf a and put my missile, drones, disruptor and web on the wolf knowing really that the vaga will probably take me out but wanting to at least get the wolf. The wolf went down and I had 6 missiles (per launcher) remaining so put them on the vaga with the drones and web/disruptor.

By this time though I was out of cap charges for the shield booster and died, gf’s in local, even though they had brought the Wolf, Vaga, Crow and a Gila to the fight.

Plus points
I was isk positive according to the KM, 21m on the Bellicose compared to 32m on the Wolf

Negative Points.
If I knew I was staying in system some time I should have made safes and warped t those rather than off gates/planets etc.

Notes:
I don’t think I would ever have beaten a vaga so maybe should have just gone off to the safe (that I had not made) when he came in, but I went out to fight and not sit at a safe so 50/50 on this one.
ARES-DESIDERATUS
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2016-04-17 16:10:04 UTC
Nicely done

Don't like my post.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#14 - 2016-04-17 17:08:34 UTC
Dante Graydon wrote:
Madrax573
I fitted a Bellicose out as you suggested

[Bellicose, PVP]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 150
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier
Warp Disruptor II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Hornet II x5
Hornet II x3

I went out to Tenal to do some hunting and was hanging about 100km off a gate to see what would come in, My thinking here was that whilst I was not on the gate if a ship came into system and started burning towards me, I could assess if I could attack it or not plus if he had fiends on the other side they would have to jump in and burn towards us rather than obliterate me on gate.

A vagabond jumped in and started burning towards me so I warped off 100 from a planet, he of course followed but was too far off, but this time there was a Wolf with him. I warped at 70 to a gate and they were lucky as we all kinda landed at the same time and they were 5k off me.

I locked both the vaga and the wolf a and put my missile, drones, disruptor and web on the wolf knowing really that the vaga will probably take me out but wanting to at least get the wolf. The wolf went down and I had 6 missiles (per launcher) remaining so put them on the vaga with the drones and web/disruptor.

By this time though I was out of cap charges for the shield booster and died, gf’s in local, even though they had brought the Wolf, Vaga, Crow and a Gila to the fight.

Plus points
I was isk positive according to the KM, 21m on the Bellicose compared to 32m on the Wolf

Negative Points.
If I knew I was staying in system some time I should have made safes and warped t those rather than off gates/planets etc.

Notes:
I don’t think I would ever have beaten a vaga so maybe should have just gone off to the safe (that I had not made) when he came in, but I went out to fight and not sit at a safe so 50/50 on this one.


I think many would agree, this is how good players are made. Good job op, I like your style.
Madrax573
Doomheim
#15 - 2016-04-17 23:25:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Madrax573
Well done mate!

This is the kind of attitude that makes decent pilots great!

Keep it up.

edit: as for taking on the Vaga...why not! Twisted There was a chance that he was a bad pilot and shitfit. Don't worry so much about those kind of decisions as long you are having fun and learning stuff go for it!! And after all you came away with a kill worth more than your loss!
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2016-04-18 15:18:26 UTC
Madrax573 wrote:
Well done mate!

This is the kind of attitude that makes decent pilots great!

Keep it up.

edit: as for taking on the Vaga...why not! Twisted There was a chance that he was a bad pilot and shitfit. Don't worry so much about those kind of decisions as long you are having fun and learning stuff go for it!! And after all you came away with a kill worth more than your loss!


^ what this guy said. I think you'll do just fine if you carry on in that mindset.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Dante Graydon
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#17 - 2016-04-19 15:50:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dante Graydon
Thanks for the kind words everybody,

I'll probably write about the adventures of the remaining 7 Bellici (sp?) when I take them out. I may even link the KM here in future, Dante is not my main, the main is a 2010 character with over 80m SP, he has just never really done solo PVP before and so figured I'd post here with an alt, it may well help others who are looking to do solo stuff and are not blessed with a fantastic tactical mind lol.

Ill fit a few more up as Madrax573 suggested then I may try a couple as ARES-DESIDERATUS suggested too

I'll be taking out other cruisers too (essentially I bought 10 run BPC of every tech 1 cruiser and was going to take them out of the fun of it, Ill post a different thread per ship type, some are going to be crazy (blackbird) for example,) but it'll be fun.

Thanks again.
Madrax573
Doomheim
#18 - 2016-04-20 11:45:53 UTC
Do up a little blog mate to write up your experiences.

I have and I get a few questions about how/what to fly and I'm still a **** pilot!!
Dante Graydon
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#19 - 2016-04-20 11:50:59 UTC
Madrax573 wrote:
Do up a little blog mate to write up your experiences.

I have and I get a few questions about how/what to fly and I'm still a **** pilot!!


Hi Mad, Yeah I have a blog although nothing really connected to eve at the moment, I actually added your blog to my feedly feeder recently (I am the person that liked maybe your last 10 posts lol) I liked the style of yours.

I may well start up an eve specific blog though so it is a bit more focused. I downloaded OBS software yesterday to capture my streams, I just need to find a way to increase the quality of the feed (if indeed possible).