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Crime & Punishment

 
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Citadel Defense

Author
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#1 - 2016-03-20 06:59:39 UTC
I have plans for a big citadel(Fortizar) in Gallente high sec space.
But I don't have the men power for a proper defense fleet.
Does anyone have made a calculation yet, what it would cost, to hire your merc corp to raise a fleet and defend the citadel for 6 hours a week?

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)

Valkin Mordirc
#2 - 2016-03-20 07:47:35 UTC
Shocked



I....


for six hours are you kidding?



I don't think you could pay anyone enough, Merc's would come to your aid if it's currently under attack. But they won't sit on it...
#DeleteTheWeak
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#3 - 2016-03-20 11:47:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark O'Helm
That is my concern too. But according to ccp it only took 15 minutes of a well coordinated attack to get a citadel from shield into armor.

-think, think- But then on the next day they would have to come back to continue their work. When i have a defense fleet then, it would enough i guess. I didnt thought of that before. -end of thinking-

Thank you for your input. I think it helped.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)

tainted demon
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2016-03-20 11:57:17 UTC
Citadels will have multiple RF timers when they get attacked, so you only need to hire a defense fleet (if you need one) for those specific timers. Until these new structures come out and we can see their mechanics and what they are capable of it is hard to give any information on the cost for defending them, as it will depend on a lot of factors,

*The most important part is, who is the aggressor?
*Time window the structure is vulnerable.
*Size of structure.
*location.
*How the structure is fit. (I'm sure people will have some fun with this one)
*When it dies, anything inside can be magically teleported to a station, is it even worth hiring anyone to help for more than the cost of the magic asset moving option? if not then what's the point of even putting your own ships on the line for it.

Citadels will be a cool change, but the owner should only be able to get back the loot that didn't drop imo.Or the attacker should have to salvage through the wreck afterwords to find the loot, and what they don't find goes back.
I'm more looking forward to the next set of structures, that might actually be worth attacking/defending unless they have their own magical loot saving fairy protection.

We will see.
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#5 - 2016-03-20 12:06:34 UTC
tainted demon wrote:
Citadels will have multiple RF timers when they get attacked, so you only need to hire a defense fleet (if you need one) for those specific timers. Until these new structures come out and we can see their mechanics and what they are capable of it is hard to give any information on the cost for defending them, as it will depend on a lot of factors,

*The most important part is, who is the aggressor?
*Time window the structure is vulnerable.
*Size of structure.
*location.
*How the structure is fit. (I'm sure people will have some fun with this one)
*When it dies, anything inside can be magically teleported to a station, is it even worth hiring anyone to help for more than the cost of the magic asset moving option? if not then what's the point of even putting your own ships on the line for it.

Citadels will be a cool change, but the owner should only be able to get back the loot that didn't drop imo.Or the attacker should have to salvage through the wreck afterwords to find the loot, and what they don't find goes back.
I'm more looking forward to the next set of structures, that might actually be worth attacking/defending unless they have their own magical loot saving fairy protection.

We will see.

Good point.
The first rf timer comes 24 hours after deployment. Then the citadel will only have its blank hull and need to rep itself. This will be the most dangerous time first i think. That is the time when the most agressive attacks will happen IMHO.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)

Fred Kyong
Grollwerk
#6 - 2016-03-26 14:05:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Fred Kyong
Mark O'Helm wrote:
I have plans for a big citadel(Fortizar) in Gallente high sec space.
But I don't have the men power for a proper defense fleet.
Does anyone have made a calculation yet, what it would cost, to hire your merc corp to raise a fleet and defend the citadel for 6 hours a week?



Well, I assume you should have a fleet ready for such eventualities. Merc corps? Better ask them and it depends with how many ships they must be present. And there is no garanty they can protect it.

I did compare a Dark Blood Control Tower (large) with a medium Citadelle and it looked to me the control towers shields would be still stronger. Armor however is still better as at the control tower. Taking down a POS with 15 BS and bombers will take also a while but can be done.

With a large Citadelle you would have a better chance in highsec and I think nothing can get it down so easy. If you however get a wardec - then they have a good amount of time to get it down. Concord would not even disturb those guys. Maybe takes 20-25 BS and some gankers may have fun.

If I think to some highsec ganker/bumpers now they can come to your Citadelle, fire until they get podded, come back and continue to fire. Your shields on the Citadelle do not recharge as reading the specs. So they can take the time needed for sure without a fleet protecting it.

Then consider the costs for a large Citadelle. Was it around 3-7 Billions to build? A medium size was around 350-700 mill for the hull. No idea yet what the BPC then would be for each but I suppose it can hit the same amount. Something to consider and when you lose it later maybe.
Professor Humbert
Project Fruit House
#7 - 2016-03-30 05:05:40 UTC
If it's a high-sec Citadel, it is likely that at the time of your need...you won't be able to hire a reliable merc coz they will already be busy shooting at your citadel.
Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2016-03-30 06:17:09 UTC
Contact Archetype, your gallente overlords.

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!

Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
#9 - 2016-03-30 13:00:29 UTC
Mark O'Helm wrote:
That is my concern too. But according to ccp it only took 15 minutes of a well coordinated attack to get a citadel from shield into armor.

-think, think- But then on the next day they would have to come back to continue their work. When i have a defense fleet then, it would enough i guess. I didnt thought of that before. -end of thinking-

Thank you for your input. I think it helped.


Sorry but I am 99% sure this is wrong.

Damage mitigation means they are committed to the field for a minimum of 30 minutes per reinforcement cycle (again 99% sure on the number).

An XL will need over 100 (want to say closer to 200) battleships to reach the damage threshold, so in high sec, you will probably have longer to respond than 30 minutes.
Tora Bushido
From Hisec with Love Holdings
From Hisec with Love Coalition
#10 - 2016-03-30 13:55:54 UTC
There are some mercs who enjoy sitting on a trade hub all day. They probably wont mind sitting on your Citadel all day and get paid for it. Sounds like a good deal for some.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#11 - 2016-03-30 15:46:26 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
There are some mercs who enjoy sitting on a trade hub all day. They probably wont mind sitting on your Citadel all day and get paid for it. Sounds like a good deal for some.

As long as you undock an ocasional suspect rookie ship for them to blap, shite up local and try to scam them you could probably convince them they are actually in a hub.
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#12 - 2016-03-31 00:36:44 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
There are some mercs who enjoy sitting on a trade hub all day. They probably wont mind sitting on your Citadel all day and get paid for it. Sounds like a good deal for some.

You know, it's not a whole day right? It's 6 hours per week for a Fortizar. And i would split it at least to 2 days.
And if a fleet comes to attack the Citadel, you can not talk about sitting around anymore. Then it's rather fighting or running.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#13 - 2016-03-31 00:59:04 UTC
Let's wait and see what level of firepower is needed to actually pop a Fortizar. I don't think anyone except medium and large sized null blocs will be able to field enough ships to do it.

Without dreads, I think you'll be looking at 1-2 200 person fleets - one fleet to apply damage, one for support (countering defenders, logistics, etc).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Fred Kyong
Grollwerk
#14 - 2016-04-06 10:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Fred Kyong
Looking at some youtube where they try to get a XL Citadel down I think your comments could be ok.

As for a highsec Citadel just fully fit that thing with EWAR and EWAR drones. Should do it. They wont be able to lock you in a week.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#15 - 2016-04-06 14:27:46 UTC
So here is the high level thing you are missing. It's in HS. They can't shoot it unless they war dec you. If you get war dec'd, you have 24 hours before they can shoot you. So you have a 24 hour warning that they are coming. You could put my corp on retainer to come defend your citadel for a small monthly fee. Then if you get an active dec, we'll show up for the 6 hours of vulnerability during the war. You don't have to pay for 6hr/week you only have to pay for 6hrs/week during an active war dec.

Email me to discuss the details of the retainer fee and what we can provide when you are actually vulnerable.
Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2016-04-09 10:38:53 UTC
As owner of this citadel, should you not be marketing it as a base to live for corps and other groups you could offer cheap tax to some groups (if you can) like the last post said pay a small Amount for combat cover when needed. Maybe even ask corps who use your facilities to supply x number of pilots as defence fleet, many people have an odd alt doing nothing

Invite a Merc group to use it as a base, Mercs have some of the best high sec pvp pilots around, what better way to keep idiots away, make it a place people want to be and when, they call it home it will be defended.

A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head A painting of me

Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#17 - 2016-04-09 15:37:16 UTC
Ozzie Udan wrote:
As owner of this citadel, should you not be marketing it as a base to live for corps and other groups you could offer cheap tax to some groups (if you can) like the last post said pay a small Amount for combat cover when needed. Maybe even ask corps who use your facilities to supply x number of pilots as defence fleet, many people have an odd alt doing nothing

Invite a Merc group to use it as a base, Mercs have some of the best high sec pvp pilots around, what better way to keep idiots away, make it a place people want to be and when, they call it home it will be defended.

Wow way to reiterate some of the op's post, in your land of self righteousness do you think everyone else is just dumb?

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!

Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
#18 - 2016-04-09 16:04:30 UTC
Saeger1737 wrote:
Ozzie Udan wrote:
As owner of this citadel, should you not be marketing it as a base to live for corps and other groups you could offer cheap tax to some groups (if you can) like the last post said pay a small Amount for combat cover when needed. Maybe even ask corps who use your facilities to supply x number of pilots as defence fleet, many people have an odd alt doing nothing

Invite a Merc group to use it as a base, Mercs have some of the best high sec pvp pilots around, what better way to keep idiots away, make it a place people want to be and when, they call it home it will be defended.

Wow way to reiterate some of the op's post, in your land of self righteousness do you think everyone else is just dumb?

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to speak out and remove all doubt" Seag you need to read this quote and apply it to your posting. Your unhealthy obsession for this "farmer with a pitchfork" has become rather pathetic. My suggestion is you go outside and let the sun shine on your face, smell some flowers or something.

Tyyler DURden says "use soap"

Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2016-04-09 21:11:12 UTC
Tyyler DURden wrote:
Saeger1737 wrote:
Ozzie Udan wrote:
As owner of this citadel, should you not be marketing it as a base to live for corps and other groups you could offer cheap tax to some groups (if you can) like the last post said pay a small Amount for combat cover when needed. Maybe even ask corps who use your facilities to supply x number of pilots as defence fleet, many people have an odd alt doing nothing

Invite a Merc group to use it as a base, Mercs have some of the best high sec pvp pilots around, what better way to keep idiots away, make it a place people want to be and when, they call it home it will be defended.

Wow way to reiterate some of the op's post, in your land of self righteousness do you think everyone else is just dumb?

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to speak out and remove all doubt" Seag you need to read this quote and apply it to your posting. Your unhealthy obsession for this "farmer with a pitchfork" has become rather pathetic. My suggestion is you go outside and let the sun shine on your face, smell some flowers or something.


Pathetic yes,, I have this in game and here, it's how they work, bullying, fear and terror, but some of us stand up to them, I'm having fun and if I can get more people to fight them the better.

A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head A painting of me

NotTheSmartestCookie
Shooting Blues Everyday
Gimme Da Loot
#20 - 2016-04-09 22:21:05 UTC
Tyyler DURden wrote:
.. snip..
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to speak out and remove all doubt" Seag you need to read this quote and apply it to your posting. Your unhealthy obsession for this "farmer with a pitchfork" has become rather pathetic. My suggestion is you go outside and let the sun shine on your face, smell some flowers or something.


If we are too strict about applying this rule then only CODE. would be posting here. So in the general interest of keeping a lively discussion, please carry on.

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