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How ship's shield resistance bonus work?
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shira ora
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-03-29 22:52:10 UTC  |  Edited by: shira ora
Can't figure this out.

Moa has "4% bonus to all shield resistances" per level, I have 2 levels in Caldari Cruiser, so I should have 8% bonus

Fresh Moa has 0% 20% 40% 50% resistances.

My Moa has 8% 27% 45% 54%

I understand 8% bonus to EM but where all other numbers came from, is there some complicated formula for that?
Memphis Baas
#2 - 2016-03-29 22:57:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
EVE University guide on EVE's math. Scroll down to "Resistances".
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#3 - 2016-03-30 00:00:04 UTC
Unfortunately, the guide doesn't cover ship bonuses. I always thought DC AND ship resistances were not penalized. Skill based ship resists were supposed to modify the base resist. Also, the new Reactive Hardeners are supposed to have no stacking penalty too.

I say "supposed to" because that's how I was informed/misinformed. Not making any claims at this point. EU guide at least says DC is not penalized, which is what I always thought.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-03-30 00:30:06 UTC
a very common way that percentages work in this game is a percentage of the difference from where you are to perfect.

In this case from 0% to 100% is 100 so 8% of 100 is 8. 8 + 0 = 8 so 8%

so the 50% base resist would work like this:

100 - 50 = 50 * 8 = 4 + 50 = 54%

100 - 40 = 60 * 8 = 5 + 40 = 45%

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2016-03-30 00:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Resistances and bonuses are multipicative... not additive.

edit:
also, before you ask... no... getting 100% resistance to a damage type is not possible.

(well... it is possible in very specific circumstances... you just don't want to get to 100%. The system will bug out and make you take "infinite damage" at that point).

How did you Veterans start?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2016-03-30 00:50:50 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Resistances and bonuses are multipicative... not additive.


This is probably a lot simpiler and easier to remember way to look at it than what I posted.

If you are given an 8% resist bonus it would stand to reason that means you are going to be able to resist 8% of the damage coming in. If you were already resisting 40% you could not be now resisting 48% because that would require you to resist 8% of the 40% that is already resisted. By reason you could only resist 8% of the 60% that has yet to be mitigated.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2016-03-30 02:42:14 UTC
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#8 - 2016-03-30 15:36:52 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Unfortunately, the guide doesn't cover ship bonuses. I always thought DC AND ship resistances were not penalized. Skill based ship resists were supposed to modify the base resist. Also, the new Reactive Hardeners are supposed to have no stacking penalty too.

I say "supposed to" because that's how I was informed/misinformed. Not making any claims at this point. EU guide at least says DC is not penalized, which is what I always thought.

I thought the reactive hardeners were supposed to 'shift' that 60% resistance around in response to the incoming damage. Using Scourge missles, the Guriesta Cruisers in the last event were supposedly doing 100% Thermal damage. My reactive hardener did stop a lot but I was still taking WAAAY more damage than I should have been (I had 3 Thermal resists, only 2 were supposedly 'penalized' per Iria's comment) The game said I had around 83% Thermal damage resistance. I felt like I was taking far more damage than that resistance would lead me to believe.

I'm wondering if the Reactive Hardener has a maximum it can shuffle to a given defense. With it operating as it should've been, I would've expected it to be over 95% resistance once it identified the incoming damage types...

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2016-03-30 16:45:47 UTC
The Reactive Armor Hardener gives its own resistances on top of everything else. Those resistances are only stacked against the resistances given by a Damage control.

Now here is the thing... a RAH takes a few cycles to shift one resistance (the one it applies, not overall resistances) to "max." And it won't zero out the other resistances it provides to do this.


Understand, getting super high resistances is supposed to be VERY hard, if not impossible.

How did you Veterans start?
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#10 - 2016-03-30 17:38:44 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Understand, getting super high resistances is supposed to be VERY hard, if not impossible.


It's very hard on my capacitor... extremely hard! I had it on for a lot of cycles and while it got 'better' I'm not sure what the actual mechanic of it was. It never seemed to reach what level I thought it would.

I guess I'm just asking if anyone knows the full mechanics behind the critter.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2016-03-30 19:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
I'm wondering if the Reactive Hardener has a maximum it can shuffle to a given defense. With it operating as it should've been, I would've expected it to be over 95% resistance once it identified the incoming damage types...

Reactive Armor Hardener starts with 15% resist x 4 = 60 resist points, and shifts 2 points per resist per cycle.

All 60 points can land on one resist, but you'd have to be taking only missile damage for that to happen.

If you read the link I previously posted, you would know that resist bonuses apply to the difference between 100% and the current resist. The higher the resists, the less the effective bonus = diminishing returns.

As far as I know, the Caldari Bustard Deep Space Transport (DST) still remains as the ship with the highest potential resists. Shield naturally, as armor tanking tends rely more on buffer.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#12 - 2016-03-30 20:08:52 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
I'm wondering if the Reactive Hardener has a maximum it can shuffle to a given defense. With it operating as it should've been, I would've expected it to be over 95% resistance once it identified the incoming damage types...

Reactive Armor Hardener starts with 15% resist x 4 = 60 resist points, and shifts 2 points per resist per cycle.

All 60 points can land on one resist, but you'd have to be taking only missile damage for that to happen.

If you read the link I previously posted, you would know that resist bonuses apply to the difference between 100% and the current resist. The higher the resists, the less the effective bonus = diminishing returns.

As far as I know, the Caldari Bustard Deep Space Transport (DST) still remains as the ship with the highest potential resists. Shield naturally, as armor tanking tends rely more on buffer.


Thank you for the additional data. I did read your information and I knew 'roughly' how the math worked but didn't know how the reactive armor module worked.

Yes, you take lots of missle damage over a long period of time and your 2% per cycle would explain what I saw in the incoming dps. It's a really slow process. I thought it would shift faster than that.

Since the critter bleeds a capacitor dry, you probably can't keep it on long enough to keep that going well enough to benefit fully from that. Given this, they probably need to speed this shifting up to make it more worthwhile for the energy it consumes unless this is intended for ships on the larger side of their 'size' category, which would make more sense for it to be built the way it is.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2016-03-31 04:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Since the critter bleeds a capacitor dry, you probably can't keep it on long enough to keep that going well enough to benefit fully from that. Given this, they probably need to speed this shifting up to make it more worthwhile for the energy it consumes unless this is intended for ships on the larger side of their 'size' category, which would make more sense for it to be built the way it is.

FWIW, they doubled the shift from 1% to 2%. Doubt if it will be increased.

I've never had problems with capacitor. By any chance are you perma-running an armor repper? Worse, are you standing still?

My Hurricane is cap stable at 74% without the repper constantly running. Peak capacitor recharge rate is around 25% or so. so that's a fair amount of capacitor available for burst repping. ATS is never activated.

Yes, I actually use T2 ammo, along with T1 as needed.

[Hurricane, Level 3 Missions]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Medium Armor Repairer II

Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
10MN Afterburner II

Auto Targeting System II
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Quake M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Quake M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Quake M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Quake M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Quake M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Quake M

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x1
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#14 - 2016-03-31 15:25:05 UTC
No, I never stand still, but rarely have AB on.

When I was trying to run the Gurista's sites during the event, I could only hang in on the site with active Thermal defenses. Trying to avoid the penalty as much as possible, I had to split it up between an Active Thermal Hardener, a Passive Thermal Hardener and the Resistance Hardener.

I did run the armor rep once I got down to about 75% armor remaining, then shut it off when it got at or near full.

I was babying my capacitor as much as possible, and manually dumping the boosters into the Cap.

Yeah, it was a lot of work, and it gave me good practice.

I was happy to finally finish it in a Tech 1 Cruiser, but I needed some help on the dps side so a corp mate helped me out there. This was basically the only build I got to work right:

[Thorax]
Reactive Armor Hardener
Medium 'Accommodation' Armor Repairer
'Element' Kinetic Plating I
Prototype Thermal Plating I
Upgraded Armor Thermal Hardener I

F-90 Compact Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400
10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
F-12 Enduring Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script

150mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Thorium Charge S
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
200mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Hybrid Ambit Extension I
Medium Ionic Field Projector I
Medium Drone Speed Augmentor I

Hornet EC-300 x5
Hornet I x5

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