EVE New Citizens Q&A

5mn one gives it only extra 100 m/s, 50mn doesn't fit at the same time with all railguns.

So far all ships I tried could fit all the weapons and mdw w/o any problem, is Moa an exception?

Ok, what's the point of having Moa instead of Cormorant?

With equal skills in small and medium hybrid turrets, Moa either has same dps (with one turret missing) than Cormorant and a mwd or it has 50 more dps but crawls around at 300 m/s.

Where is the advantage, one hull costs 1.2 mil another 14 mil?

Ask yourself this: "What am I trying to do with a more expensive, skill-intensive ship that I cannot do as well with a smaller, less skill intensive one?"

at 4 days old with **** poor fitting skills, core skills , and hull skills ... going "waaaaw im in a cruser" and that's about it.

though on the upshot you just figured out two very very valuable facts about ships in eve.

1) Bigger does not equals better
( moa is better at some things but being suitable for you right now isnt one of them)

and

2) Just because you can fly something does not mean you should.
( sitting in something and getting even 2/3's of its performance are not happening on the same day)

to parrot the above, fitting skills, core skills and hull skills will make the moa better, but it will take some time.

be patient, train skills, start screwing with the locals in the meantime, make friends and enemies (particularly enemies , they're way more fun)

My biggest newbie mistake-- for more info see shafluffer's thread-- was fitting an omen with super basic skills. I think I had cruiser 1, med turrets 1, and drones 1. and going to do a level 1 mission. That didn't go very well. Maybe I had cruiser 2 turrets 2...

Meh, well, best to learn lessons like that early...

Among other things:

- MUCH beefier tank
- greater potential raw damage
- more flexibility in what tactics you can pull off

However, you will pay for this with...

- lower mobility (larger ships move slow both in and out of warp)
- greater skill requirements (larger ships depend less on speed and more on stats and numbers to function)
- vulnerability to smaller ships


You are looking at the Moa as a straight upgrade from a Cormorant.
It isn't.

A destroyer is geared more towards range and speed with relatively high firepower.
A cruiser is geared more towards firepower with decent tanking ability.


Let us do a comparison:
(NOTE: for the purposes of this comparison, I will only use Tech 1 gear and take stats with "no skills applied" and "max skills applied")

[Cormorant]
Damage Control I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

1MN Afterburner I
Small Shield Booster I
Small Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200

125mm Railgun I, Lead Charge S
125mm Railgun I, Lead Charge S
125mm Railgun I, Lead Charge S
125mm Railgun I, Lead Charge S
125mm Railgun I, Lead Charge S
125mm Railgun I, Lead Charge S
125mm Railgun I, Lead Charge S
[empty high slot]


Stats:
- deals 44 damage per second (no skills)... 88 damage per second (max skills)
- tanks 23 damage per second (no skills)... 28 damage per second (max skills)
- range is 15km optimal + 5km falloff (no skills)... 25km optimal + 6km falloff (max skills)
- speed is ~440 meters per second (no skills)... ~600 meters per second (max skills)
- effective hitpoints is ~3800 (no skills)... ~4800 (max skills)


Now let us look at the Moa with a similar, but different, setup...

[Moa]
Damage Control I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Tracking Enhancer I

10MN Afterburner I
Shield Boost Amplifier I
Medium Shield Booster I
Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400
Stasis Webifier I

200mm Railgun I, Lead Charge M
200mm Railgun I, Lead Charge M
200mm Railgun I, Lead Charge M
200mm Railgun I, Lead Charge M
200mm Railgun I, Lead Charge M

Hobgoblin I x3


Stats:
- deals 87 damage per second (no skills)... 190 damage per second (max skills)
- tanks 50 damage per second (no skills)... ~75 damage per second (max skills)
- range is 19km optimal + 11km falloff (no skills)... 24km optimal + 14km falloff (max skills)
- speed is ~380 meters per second (no skills)... ~530 meters per second (max skills)
- effective hitpoints is ~8500 (no skills)... ~11500 (max skills)


The Breakdown:

1) The Moa deals more damage than the Cormorant both with and without skills. The reason for this is due to the Moa having more low slots and CPU, allowing it to fit an additional Magnetic Field Stabilizer. Moreover, the cruiser sized guns have a higher damage modifier (you have to dig in the weapons' Info Box to find this stat) which means that it will hit with more force.

-------- Penalty 1: As I have said before, larger guns have trouble hitting smaller things (especially small moving things) as the weapons effectively "rotate" slower. You can find a weapons tracking stat in the weapons' Info Box. The higher the number, the greater the tracking (don't worry, I didn't full understand this stat until after a year of playing).
You can mitigate slower weapon tracking speeds by fitting a Tracking Enhancer (speeds up weapon rotation and increases range) or by fitting a Stasis Webifier (which slows down a target's speed by 50%.

-------- Penalty 2: Larger weapons shoot slower. Instead of "pew... pew... pew..." you will get "PEW............... PEW............... PEW..............." Larger weapons make up for this by hitting MUCH harder. However you can mitigate the lower firing rate by fitting Magnetic Field Stabilizers.

Additional Note: Different kinds of ammo can increase or decrease the damage a weapon deals while respectively decreasing or increasing weapon range.
Antimatter will deal the most damage but has the lowest range. Iron will deal the least damage but has the highest range. Lead ammo is in-between.


2) The Moa has more than double the tanking power of the Cormorant both with no skills and max skills. This is due to the Moa's higher CPU and Powergrid, which allows it to fit a beefier Shield Booster and a Shield Boost Amp.

3) The Cormorant and Moa more or less tie for engagement range both with no skills and max skills. This is due to the Cormorant's destroyer bonuses that increase the range of in-class weapons and the native range of cruiser-sized weapons.

4) The Cormorant has a higher speed than the Moa both with no skills and max skills. This is due to the Cormorant inherently lower mass, higher agility, and higher top speed.

5) The Moa has more than double the effective hitpoints of the Cormorant. This is due to the Moa's inherently higher shield, armor, and hull HP. You can increase this stat by fitting certain modules that increase damage resistance or by fitting a Large Shield Extender (which the Moa has the capacitor power, CPU, and Powergrid to do).


Overall... it is all about tradeoffs. Larger, more expensive ships do not offer more efficiency over smaller ships. They offer certain advantages while giving up others to be better at certain tasks and tactics.

Here is a better way to put it: what we have here is small 4-door hatchback (Cormorant) to a mid-sized sedan (Moa).
The hatchback will be better on smaller streets, offer better fuel economy, and be easy to park. The sedan will go up hills better and can carry more people and things... but it will be slower on turns and won't fit into parking spaces as easily.

More slots available on the ship gives you more versatility; shield setups can be over-sized (use large on a medium cruiser hull), which will give you enough staying power to get in close and personal with blasters.

[Moa]
Damage Control I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Tracking Enhancer I

10MN Afterburner I
Large Ancillary Shield Booster with 150's (this has a 1 minute reload, requiring some warping out to recharge)
Stasis Webifier I
Shield Hardener I
Shield Hardener I (to match the type of damage the NPCs do)

Heavy Ion Blaster I, Antimatter Charge M x5

You're looking at significantly more DPS and tank; with the tactics of "afterburn to close range then hold the target still with the webifier and kill it with the blasters."

Also, since you're looking at a cost of 14 million for the ship, consider spending an additional 4-6 million total to min-max its performance and survivability. So instead of the base Tech 1 modules and guns, try to use the better Meta variations, whatever you can find that is cheap enough to fit the budget. Should be able to squeeze another 10-15% MORE out of it, which will make a difference.

Main reason I see to keep small guns with cruisers is because you need the tank but not the dps. Frigate guns should use less cap, and free up a lot of fitting that can be used elsewhere. Or maybe someone just doesn't want to reship but wants to grind faction with level 1 missions. Could probably fit a very strong active tank by fitting small turrets.

I don't see that it leverages resists profile, since those are more a matter of ammo used, but they will hit more. Usually I'll see drone ships with smalls. I assume this is because they use sentries or their flight of drones is often too far out to recall. So they need a way to deal with close frigates while they snipe everything else. It is mostly a pve practice. PVP, small turrets is probably something found in bait ships, but it doesn't sound too effective for "hunting" frigates. More of an ambush tactic that will be most effective with double webs to keep the faster frigates from running away. But if you're using double webs, might as well use med turrets.