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Solo Frig PVP speed fit?
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Nadav Mena
#1 - 2016-03-23 14:12:11 UTC
I am new to PVP, planning to focus on frig soloing.
I have made some research and learned the basic theory, but still got something to ask before I rush to blow my ship up.

1. Is speed tanking effective against drones?
2. Is it safe/worth risking to go all out with speed? (nanofiber, speed rigs and alike)
3. What EWARs are popular? I know neut/nos are on many ships but how about the others?
4. Should I fit defensive EWAR or should I just save the slot and pray not to encounter one?
5. Heard some ships, like the Hawk, Sentinel, the Rifter before nerf, are OP to the level of "cant find a fight cause no one would fight them one on one", is that true there are ships to be avoided?

I would like to take any extra advices from your practical experience, would be grateful if you may provide some insight.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#2 - 2016-03-23 14:28:48 UTC
1: Yes. Speed tanking against drones can be very effective.
2: It Depends(tm). As a general rule, probably not. One mistake in such a vessel will cost you the fight (eg: Getting scrammed in a Slicer is a death sentence).
3: All of them see plenty of use, ECM is generally only used on the ECM bonused Caldari hulls.
4: It Depends(tm).
5: It's more a question of knowing what your ship can and can't take. For example, if I'm in a dual prop Dramiel and I see a Hookbill, I don't engage as it's most likely dual web fit and will make me go POP.

My advice?
Pick up a stack of 20 of your Frigate Of Choice along with fittings and go play silly buggers.
Un-Frack your Overview.
Try to learn from your mistakes.
Do not expect fights to be honorabru 1v1, these are very rare.
Learn how to get your pod out, especially if you're flying with implants plugged in.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#3 - 2016-03-24 02:13:06 UTC
Above poster has the right advice. PvP in Eve is quite complex and there are many things to learn. Before you get started you can watch some videos on YouTube, there are a whole bunch that focus on T1 frigates for new players and have alot of information on fits, what to engage, battle tactics etc. I'd suggest picking a t1 frigate that you're best skilled for and looking for videos/info about flying it around solo. Then go out and buy a whole bunch with a fitting that you decide on and go lose them all, the experience you will gain from it is extremely valuable.

Also don't forget that the space you're flying in has a big impact on what kind of fits you will use. For example MWD/Scram/Web ships are the standard in null and microwarps are required to catch interceptors, burn through bubbles and seperate gangs. On the other hand in lowsec a similar fit will get decimated by most brawlers due to them fitting Afterburner/Scram/Web and thus having range control on you.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-03-24 12:00:51 UTC
My take:

1. Yes

2. Speed basically serves 2 purposes:
a. Control range of the engagement, though you also have to factor in your ability to deal with speed 'counters' (webs and scrams)
b. Mitigate damage, though if you're up against other frigs or dessies (small weapons) you won't mitigate much in most cases
So as Meph said, it depends. As a general rule, a more balanced fit (speed, tank, dps, ...) is usually better than an extreme fit (speed only), unless you're trying something very niche

3. In my humble experience soloing in and around Black Rise, EWAR is not that common after all.

4. I'd avoid 'defensive EWAR' as a general rule. Though if you know someone is running a specific EWAR, it can be quite effective to directly counter it.

5. If you're flying a frigate, I'd advise to not engage solo any destroyer or above, any pirate frigate, ECM frigs (Griffin, Navy Griffin, Kitsune), Sentinels. If you're in a T1 frig, engaging AFs is also not a great idea mainly because of their tank.

This just to give you some quick advice. As the above posters said, EVE is a great and complex game and once you have more experience you can break any 'rule of thumb' with the right ship and in the right situation.

Fly fun!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#5 - 2016-03-24 12:30:51 UTC
Nadav Mena wrote:
I am new to PVP, planning to focus on frig soloing.
I have made some research and learned the basic theory, but still got something to ask before I rush to blow my ship up.

1. Is speed tanking effective against drones?
2. Is it safe/worth risking to go all out with speed? (nanofiber, speed rigs and alike)
3. What EWARs are popular? I know neut/nos are on many ships but how about the others?
4. Should I fit defensive EWAR or should I just save the slot and pray not to encounter one?
5. Heard some ships, like the Hawk, Sentinel, the Rifter before nerf, are OP to the level of "cant find a fight cause no one would fight them one on one", is that true there are ships to be avoided?

I would like to take any extra advices from your practical experience, would be grateful if you may provide some insight.


1. Depends... most of the time yes, but fear the gila...
2. It might, on ship specially designed for that for instance the slicer, but then avoid targets that can hit you from range (light missiles ships, beam confessors, arty svipuls or chremoas) RUN FROM HYENAS
3. Damps are good in gang, however you'll mostly face ecm.
4. no, unless your fit is already dank and you have a free slot that you don't know how to fill
5. As always, everything depends on the pilot, but if you ships is cap angry you might want to avoid sentinels. Hawks will fukc you if you get scramed or if they're light missile fit(but in that case you should be able to espace).

Just know what you ship can and can't engage and you should be fine.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-03-25 03:00:48 UTC
As everyone has already said, everything is "it depends".


On 1:

Speed to a certain point increases the dps you take then it lowers it again,

drones have a orbit velicity and a mwd speed, they will orbit you at obrit speed at their orbit distance and shoot you, if they are not in shooting range they will mwd towards you, now drones outtrack themselves somewhat - hence standing stll lowering drones dps, as long as you go under a drones orbit speed you will increase its dps by burning around as you actually lower trasversal and help the drone track.

Drones dont shoot while they mwd, so if you go faster then their orbit velocity they have to mwd to keep up, the more they mwd the less they shoot, so the faster you are the less they shoot. Then you have a drones max velocity, if you go faster then that you take 0 damage (most times not exactly true, as your ship will turn and otherwise lower speed artificially). There are mods and ships which make drones faster and different drones go at different speed.

On 2:

Speedtanking as such only works against drones, damage migation through speedi s called sig tanking (i.e a mixture of small sig and fast speed lowering dps on you), what you most times do while kiting is range tanking, i.e you simply sit outside of the range of the enemy guns or missiles. Going all out on speed can work but there are thresholds and to reach those you either have to fly very specifc ships or more commonly have billions in implants, links and fly a specific ship - then it really gets op. But for the most being faster does lower dps.

You have to consider stacking penalitys and how fast is fast enough, at some points going faster loses you cap or dps or range or fitting, if your ships goes 9km/s preheat but shoots to 3km it does nothing, a 6km/s ship that shoots to 40km is much better.

But even that is most times to fast, as a rough rule of thumb, if you go over 3k you are fast enough.

On 3:

Damps, neuts, webs, tds, gds, ecm, almost all ewar is used, but mostly you ignore it and a ewar frig will force you to gtfo anyways

On 4:

No, never. If by defensive ewar you mean eccm or sebos, while some ships carry sebos for a good reason you shoulnt try to counter ewar, in 1 of 10 fights it helps you, in the rest it does nothing.

On 5;

Yes/no, usually you can get fights in most things. Dont fight garmurs and dont fight t2 or t3 dessies. Orthrus and similar also should be avoided. Try to, at first, always only fight your class and below, i.e if you fly a t1 frig only fight t1 frigs, if you fly a t3d fight everything under cruiser size and similar.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#7 - 2016-03-25 03:26:21 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:

On 5;

Orthrus and similar also should be avoided...


anything that's commonly Rapid Light Missile Launcher fit should be avoided when flying a Frigate. So Orthrus, Caracal, Cerberus and a few others.

RLMLs will shred you.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Nadav Mena
#8 - 2016-03-26 13:07:39 UTC
Thanks for all the replies, I guess I shall stick to a more balanced fit and target T1 frig only.
And BTW, should I fit beam laser with shorter crystal or pulse laser with longer crystal? I heard there was a beam buff.
Planning to fly scam kite executioner or tormentor in FW.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-03-26 13:26:24 UTC
[Tormentor, New Setup 1]
Internal Force Field Array I
Heat Sink II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Adaptive Nano Plating II

1MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S

Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x2

One of the best t1 frigates atm, 3.2k ehp, 119 rep/second with heat, 233dps with heat at 8km with multi.


Beams, especially small ones, are legitimately broken right now, take a incursus and fit it with 150mm railguns - you get 97 dps with the hull bonus, fit small focused beams and you get 98 dps without any bonus at all, this is how broken they are at the moment. The native opness of the comet + hull rigs and the fact that the punisher is garbage sort of hides this fairly well but the torm is a seriously good ship right now.

To compare, a blaster merlin using void at 0 does less dps then the torm at 8km. The tormentor does blaster dps at 0 at range, coupled with a fairly sturdy tank, decent enough speed to not run into tracking issues and the ability to drive of some kiters (135dps preheat to 30km due to aurora, so you can drive off that slicer if its a very common double nano version). This ship right now is all around fairly good, you can try to beat dessies and even some t3ds with it (hecate, svipul - but at least for the svipul, expect death or having to run due to no chance of breaking it before it wears you down).


This will win against almost all t1 frigates with relative ease (tristan is an exception, you can always drive of the non neut versions as killing its drones goes very quickly). It can take some afs, pretty much all ceptors (will be close with a few depending on where you start but for example the crusader is a straight up worse ship in actual combat, keep at range 8km and get a free win), dessies are engageable but you shouldnt expect to win tbh, t3d are as said above usually to strong but the weaker ones are possible.

You shouldnt engage comets, while they rep less and have pretty much the exact same dps (depending on how drones act actually lower dps) the ehp they have and their higher speed means that unless you start a fight vs a blaster one at 8km with it at 0 with th wrong ammo loaded you will lose. Hookbills also arent worth engaging as they either run or kill you, firetails are even and vs a slicer you load aurora (sig bloom will make you track better, and you need less cap and are tankier then the slicer)

Its a pure 1v1 ship though, it can fight 1v2 or 3 but you need few webs on you to force low transversal and while its fairly tanky for a t1 frigate it still is a t1 frig, you can also forget upengaging vs cruiser or bigger in this, you are super weak to cap warfare of the cruiser kind (as that isnt scram kiteable). Its cheap as hell though but most people know that this ship is fairly op so dont expect everyone fighting you all the time (you eat up kestrels though, and thanks to suitona people do fly those quite a bit).


How to pilot: vs everything you keep at range 8-7km and heat while sticking your drones on the enemy, ab gets heated from the start, scram gets heated near the end if you still have heat left, heat the saar all the time. In your cargo you should carry multi and aurora. All other Crystal types are wasted for you, never use gleam in this. For drones you want to adjust to the region you fly in, but usually you want acolytes or hobgoblins.

If you arent tracking double click in space. Kill drones if caught by kiting drone ships the second the fight starts and while you shouldnt do this vs real kiting drone ship as it will probably mean that you cant track the drones its worth noting that in general vs drone ships you want to ctrl-space immediatly - drones cant track targets that stand still very well while they do track targets abing extremely well, so vs scram kiting drone boats, dont move.
ARES-DESIDERATUS
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-03-26 15:58:32 UTC
^ Tormentor doesn't fit any more, has to be updated?

[Tormentor, New Setup 16]
IFFA Compact Damage Control
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Extruded Compact Heat Sink

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Compact Stasis Webifier

Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S

Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I


*Extruded Compact Heat Sink to lower CPU to fit T2 scram, requires EE-601 implant to fit

Don't like my post.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-03-27 01:12:34 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
rather meta smething else like the scram


The tiercide of webs and scrams and **** is fuckin aids, horrible job @ccp!
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#12 - 2016-03-28 03:19:13 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
rather meta smething else like the scram


The tiercide of webs and scrams and **** is fuckin aids, horrible job @ccp!


If you want a T2 Heat sink you have to meta the scram to the compact version which only has a 7.5km range which really limits your scram kiting, you'll have to overheat the scram alot to keep at the edge of your range and you also have to overheat your AB since the tormentor is one of the slower T1 frigs risking burning out your mids. The meta heat sink isn't too bad and you only lose 6 dps compared to T2. If you don't want to use an implant you can run the fit ares suggested but with a scoped scram instead of the T2 which gives 8.25km scram range which is much more reasonable.

I'm with you 100% though, the scram/web tiercide was a giant middle finger to the frigate meta. Screwed up so many fits and made them lose alot of important stats.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-03-28 16:15:50 UTC
Fair enough.