Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Give AF an AB role bonus. Add in the cap and grid to fit a plate/extender while perma running a booster/repper. (My personal view is that the fozzinator going along w/ a mwd bonus for AF was the 2nd most not smart thing he's done. To be fair, his armor hac brain has trouble conceptualizing other forms of pvp. Frigates kite things so MWD is good wasn't where his brain should have been)


Take away their kiting options and move them to heavy tackle.

Give them the umph (tank) to hold a t3d long enough for a team mate to bring in the assist hammer and smash them.

All else being equal - I'm OK w/ a t3d winning most true solo fights w/ an AF, but an AF should be able to comfortably hold tackle long enough for a support crew to arrive. A reasonably flown AF should be able to tank a kiting frigate and most kiting dessy. That should be its role. No t3d in prop mode should be able to crack an AF. (I'd like to see an XX% reduction in t3d range and/or damage and/or tracking when in prop mode - lore it to some fire control resources being diverted to propulsion doo-dads).

Basically I want a solo t3d pilot to check local and do some survival possibility math before engaging a lone AF. It shouldn't be a trip to the free throw line.

I'd say big picture the t3d discussion group should be tazed/kicked until we get some actual results (Come on Sweety)


(What he did to the geddon was his 1st most not smart thing - bastard)

oh this again.

To save a wall of text: across the board overheat bonuses. make how a ship is fit AND fitting layout very important, and a bit more micromanagement brings more playing skill to the forefront. Make the overheat bonuses slot specific.

Oversize guns: put the Assault back into assault frigates.

Overheat bonuses and larger ammo sizes cap the length of engagements these ships can last without support ships/modules/structures that can rep/replace/refuel/and rearm.

The enyo is always brought up, but there are overheatable mid slot mods and paired with rigs the enyo could be one of the nastier AF's to actually deal with.

and get rid of that silly mwd bonus

I'm not against what the geddon does. I think the appoch would have been a better ship to totally retool. The long range laser BS hasn't been a wanted/needed thing for like 8 years.

My gripe is that the geddon is a large phallic behemoth that should be spewing fire and death - not neuting. It's more aesthetic based than anything else. The geddon was the go to BS for empire POS bashing. 5 sentries and a cap stable fit made them the bomb for that.

Again, not against a T1 Amarr BS being a neut boat, but fozzie could have done that to the apoch and NO ONE would have cared. Changing the geddon took away a useful, fun and often used platform and left the ill used appoch useless and rotting.



As to t3d - nerf them weekly in small increments until their usage comes back in line with other ships.

Assault frigates need to be brought back in line, no sane player can disagree with this. But you don't want to just give a blanket AB bonus to the whole ship class or turn them into "T3D tacklers", you want to bridge the gap between assault frigates and the other elite frigates, which hilariously out-run assault frigates without even trying.

Real elite frigates in the modern EVE, even the slow ones, start off somewhere close to 3,000 m/s with 5mn MWD. The fast ones (Dramiel, Garmur) start off at around 4,000 m/s. Even the slow elite frigates, such as the Maulus Navy Issue, goes 2,779 m/s with just a 5mn MWD. The Worm starts off at 2,957 m/s with just a 5mn MWD, and can hilariously get assault frigate levels of tank and DPS at basically any range that matters. Even if your assault frigate can match the ranged DPS of the Worm without dying (unlikely, even the Harpy with double optimal range bonuses can't match the Worm's DPS), you simply don't have the speed to catch or hold him down.

This kind of thing wouldn't be such a problem if you could at least reliably match the ranged DPS and tank of the Worm, but assault frigates can BARELY manage to do that, and it doesn't really matter when other frigates, including the Worm, zoom right past you with around a 1km/s speed advantage without even trying.

Even T3Ds are faster and more agile than assault frigates. Not by much, but ask yourself if Tech 3 Destroyers should even be able to reliably match the speed of any assault frigate? This is destroyer vs frigate we are talking about here.

Confessor MWD speed: 2,343 m/s align time 4.2 sec
Retribution MWD speed: 2,317 m/s align time 6.5 sec
Vengeance MWD speed: 2,284 m/s, align time 6.6

You will see essentially the same thing with the Jag and the Wolf versus the Svipul, it's significantly more agile and even faster than either of them.

The Confessor and Svipul are of course due for a nerf, but it is in all likelyhood going to be a minor nerf, and these problems will still exist inherent to the assault frigate ship class.

I don't think anyone thinks the Jackdaw needs to be nerfed, yet the Hawk and Harpy are a measly 200 m/s faster than the Jackdaw. This is, despicably, not too far away from the speed of a Caracal, which goes 1,897 m/s. Harpy goes 2,218 m/s

To make this crystal clear, a Harpy has a 321 m/s speed advantage over a Caracal when both are fitted with an MWD. This is clearly insane, no frigate should be at such severe speed disadvantages that it can barely outrun cruisers. The only justification for such low speed would be if assault frigates were capable of T3D levels of damage and tank, but they come nowhere near being able to do that. In fact they can barely match other elite frigate classes in terms of DPS projection. Assault frigates just aren't fast enough to reliably kite or catch things that they can kill.

This isn't just a problem of assault frigates being overshadowed by new ship classes; assault frigates are inherently flawed compared to just about every other ship class. They don't have the combination of all around useful stats that other frigates have and their speed and agility is just totally gimped. Assault frigates as they are barely count as frigates

You should not have done that.

In hindsight, everything I said is superfluous. I think almost everyone here knows what's up with assault frigates - except baltec1 who for reasons I cannot fathom believes that the Jackdaw is overpowered.

I mostly agree. Or at least I agree with the overall direction this is going.

I'd like to see AFs return to their role as a solo pvp boat. I suppose that's not incompatible with AFs being good heavy tackle as well.

I would like to see the t3D vs. AF meta become an arms race. A well fit AF should be able to (true) solo a t3D and vice versa depending on the fitting. Bring back paper/scissors/rock.

To accomplish this:
* AFs should receive a moderate AB speed bonus. This should allow them do dip into scram range and hold point with the option to disengage. The hard counter to this is either a grappler (on BS) or double webs so I don't see this becoming OP.
* AFs could use an extra mid-slot to give them more fitting options to play with. Perhaps cpu/pw could be increased to permit an extra utility electronic module: TD, web, sebo whatever.

And that's it. Extra mid and some more AB speed and you have a very nice solo ship.

My only worry is that this solution may make t1 frigs a bit underpowered relative AFs. It's still possible to kill an AF in a properly fit firetail or merlin. After these changes that won't be a thing. Not sure how to fix that part.

Mostly agree.
Retribution still needs another midslot though!

We AF Command Ships as well as AD (Assault Destroyers). AF Command Ships would have nearly the same EHP as a T1 cruiser but would be able to provide bonuses to other AF in a fleet as well as providing limited repair and fitting capabilities to any ship in the fleet.

I like the idea of increasing the requirements for T3D's to reflect how they are now. As for the assault frigates, a cap booster based prop mod that would give it a temporary high burst of speed to either out maneuver enemies or push it's way in as heavy tackle.

Without boosters it acts similar to a MWD and thus would retain it's 50% sig reduction bonus on hulls. It's speed would either remain the same or be about 75%-85% of current MWD speeds. Boosted it would get approx 150-180% speed boost compared to normal MWDs. This would last for the cycle which could be lengthened to balance and possibly disassociated with any skills that shorten MWD cycle time, though another option would be to have cycle time depend on the cap booster used. Another option would be that when it is being boosted it gives an AB like effect even when scrammed, if not being boosted it is deactivated.

With that, give them a decent buff to ehp and leave the rest alone. Except for the ishkurs weird crappy drone bay size bonus and I don't remember if there is still that one with only 2 mids, those should be fixed.

totaly OP but hay i got board would make for some quique game play mechanics
split the class in 2!!!

fleet assault frigates:
base speed buff of arounf 10%
sub class bonus 90% acceleration from afterburners (reach to speed super fast)

enyo.
roll = 100% tracking
frigate per level: 5% armour hp , 5% damage
assault frig per level : 4% resistances, 7.5% bonus from remote assistance

harpy.
roll = 100% optimal for turrets
frigate per level= 5% shield hp , 5% damage
assault frig per level: 4% resistances, 7.5% bonus from remote assistance

jag. move 1 low and 1 high to the mids
roll = 100% damage
frig per level: 5% damage. 4% resistances
assault frigate per level: 5% tracking, 7.5% bonus from remote assistance

retribution. remove a turret hardpoint, drop 1 high to a mid
roll = 100% damage
frig per level: 5% damage, 5% resistances
assault frig per level: 10% less activation cost for lasers, 7.5% bonus from remote assistance


combat assault frigate:
base speed buff of arounf 10%
retaind the MWD sig bloom reduction currently active in the AF line)

ishkur. (change the model to t2 tristan)
roll = can launch medium drones (50m3 drone bay and 50mb dbw)
frig per level: 5% drone damage, 7.5% bonus to armour repairers
assault frig per level: 5% drone optimal+tracking,aar reload reduced by 10%

wolf.
roll = 100% to tracking
frig per level: 5% damage, 5% armour HP
assault frigate per level: 5% damage, 7.5% armour rep

hawk.
roll = 200% bonus to rocket damage
frig per level: 5% shield boost amount, 5% kinetic rocket damage
assault frig per level: 5% to range of rockets, 5% reduction to sig bloom of shield modules

vengance. lose 2 launcher hard points, remove 2 highs, add 1 mid and 1 low respectivly
roll = 125% damage with light missiles, -50% light missile optimal range
frig per level: 10% small turret ROF, 5% armour hp
assault frig per level: 7.5% armour rep, 5% reduction to penaltys of armour modules/rigs