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A New Skill System - Fast and Perpetual

Author
Jade Mitch
A Problem with Authority
#1 - 2012-01-12 14:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Mitch
The Problem
1. Real-time skill training.
2. SP are permanent.

MMOs are mainly about persistence. There is no end game so nothing should be permanent and nothing should last forever, except the game. That's why the mechanic of permanent SP doesn't fit. Character progress in an MMO should be relative rather than absolute. From a lore perspective, I find it a bit far fetched that characters can absorb and retain the equivalent of the entire library of congress, even with cybernetic implants. It only makes sense that information should be lost over time if it's not used.

The Solution:
1. Increase training 10x
2. Drain SP from all non-prerequisite skills at a constant rate to simulate the forgetting of information. Something like 5*(skill level*(skill training time multiplier)) per hour.
3. Once a skill reaches 0 SP, it is forgotten, and disappears from the character sheet.
4. Prerequisite skills do not lose SP until all dependent skills are forgotten

The main goal is to increase training time so it doesn't take so long for new players to catch up with older players. It would be great if CCP were willing to introduce a buff and leave it at that. But to balance the equation, every buff must come with a nerf and every nerf must come with a buff.

So I introduce a backslide as SP drain. While the SP drain just plain sucks at first glance, it would have some positive effects on the game. By draining SP from the skills you don't train, and therefore don't use, it keeps your clone cost down. The SP drain doesn't destroy character progression, it just changes it from a long and finite pursuit to a short and indefinite pursuit. The SP drain limits a characters skill set such that the number of skills is limited by the levels to which they are trained. This makes characters either expert in a narrow set of skills or novice in a wide range of skills.

With this system in place, perhaps CCP would consider allowing players to remap their attributes more often, like every 3 months instead of every 12?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-12 14:43:04 UTC
No.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jade Mitch
A Problem with Authority
#3 - 2012-01-12 14:49:49 UTC
A man of few words.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2012-01-12 15:30:12 UTC
Jade Mitch wrote:
A man of few words.


Because it's all the words that this idea needs.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#5 - 2012-01-12 17:41:37 UTC
Hell no.

Largely because it doesn't work with the broad/interconnected EVE skill system. It also serves no purpose.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2012-01-12 17:47:06 UTC
Counter Proposal -- Go biomass yourself.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Jade Mitch
A Problem with Authority
#7 - 2012-01-12 17:59:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Mitch
Tippia wrote:
Hell no.

Largely because it doesn't work with the broad/interconnected EVE skill system. It also serves no purpose.


Broad? Yes. Interconnected? What are you talking about?

The purpose is to make the game more fun. Faster skill training is more fun.
Jade Mitch
A Problem with Authority
#8 - 2012-01-12 18:05:56 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Jade Mitch wrote:
A man of few words.


Because it's all the words that this idea needs.


It's not the idea that needs more words.
Ninevite
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-01-12 18:07:43 UTC
Yes, let's fundamentally change how character progression works for no reason.
Jade Mitch
A Problem with Authority
#10 - 2012-01-12 18:08:37 UTC
Ninevite wrote:
Yes, let's fundamentally change how character progression works for no reason.


Again, to make the game more fun.
Jade Mitch
A Problem with Authority
#11 - 2012-01-12 18:09:21 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Counter Proposal -- Go biomass yourself.


How about something constructive like, "I think... ". Or is that too much to ask?
Ninevite
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-01-12 18:16:33 UTC
Jade Mitch wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Counter Proposal -- Go biomass yourself.


How about something constructive like, "I think... ". Or is that too much to ask?


Most people will be opposed to your changes because character age is considered some sacred part of EVE. To give new characters a leg up on skill training or even nerf veteran players would never go over well with the rest of the playerbase. That's why this idea is sort of dead on arrival
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#13 - 2012-01-12 18:23:50 UTC
Jade Mitch wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Counter Proposal -- Go biomass yourself.


How about something constructive like, "I think... ". Or is that too much to ask?


OK.

I think you should go biomass yourself so as to make my Eve experience more entertaining. Remember, add value, don't subtract from it.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Velicitia
XS Tech
#14 - 2012-01-12 18:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Asuka Solo wrote:
Jade Mitch wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Counter Proposal -- Go biomass yourself.


How about something constructive like, "I think... ". Or is that too much to ask?


OK.

I think you should go biomass yourself so as to make my Eve experience more entertaining. Remember, add value, don't subtract from it.



I think ...

OP should l2eve.

as a side note though, what's with all the vets coming up with stupid training changes all of a sudden? Someone sell off some alts or something?

@Ninevite -- I'm not concerned with rookies getting SP faster (well, to a degree ... there's some player skill needed if you want your BS to survive its first fight) ... but the idea that after four years of playing, and having some skills that I haven't touched in nearly that long (Mechanics, Hull Upgrades, the core fitting skills, etc) will DEGRADE just for the hell of it? losing L5 in whatever skill is bad enough when I forget to upgrade a medclone... but the idea that I'm going to LOSE SP and LOSE EFFECTIVENESS because I haven't trained Explosive Armour Compensation L5 for the 15th time this year is just pointless.

edit -- OP, also realise that there are only about thirty years worth of SP/skills right now. Anyone who is 3+ years old will have L5 across the board ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-01-12 18:46:32 UTC
Ok, here's some more :words:

No. There is absolutely no reason to do these changes, because EVE is plenty of a cockstab as it is, there's no reason to make it a cockstab to keep skills by having to keep grinding skillpoints just to keep them because I haven't used them in $random period$.

So: No.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-01-12 18:56:41 UTC
The only positive thing that can be said for this idea is that you managed to post it in the right section of the forum.

That said, no.

You obviously have not given this even a little bit of thought, or you wouldn't have posted it. I encourage you to go back and rethink this through with regards to how you would:

1) Keep skills at level 5 at all, since once you stop training them, you start losing points, and anything under the max value is level 4, not 5.
2) Deal with prerequisites. If my Caldari cruiser slips to level 4 do I suddenly lose my points in Caldari strategic cruiser? See also point 1 with regards to level 5s.
3) What happens when I lose Navigation 5 because I was spending the last two weeks training Carrier to level 5? I can't board the carrier I now have max skills in?

I am going to go ahead and call troll.

This idea was so stupendously awful, there can be no other explanation.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#17 - 2012-01-12 19:20:14 UTC
I really think this would work, but only if it was a skill itself... Dementia to level 5 FTW!
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2012-01-12 23:42:01 UTC
Exactly how does making me lose the ability to fly, say, anything that requires minnie BS V as a punishment for spending a week flying a hyperion make the game more fun?
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#19 - 2012-01-13 00:05:39 UTC
Jade Mitch wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Counter Proposal -- Go biomass yourself.


How about something constructive like, "I think... ". Or is that too much to ask?


I think, "No."
Torin Corax
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-01-13 00:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Torin Corax
So...I'm in the middle of a PvP fight, guns blazing,when suddenly WTF??!! all my guns are off-line? Oh look, AWU 5 is no more.
So I switch back to training AWU 5 while down-grading guns.
Later that week, PvP fight and WTF??!! more stuff off-line.......oh crap, all my fitting skills are reduced to 4...In fact, my whole ship goes off-line as all the level 5 requirements for that ship (more fool me for undocking in a T2 ship) drop to level 4. This would make it all but impossible to fly T2 ships, or any ship with a level 5 pre-req.

..... I un-subscribe and go play something else.

Congratulations, you just completely broke the skill training system.

Quote:
Skill training is more focused. No more jacks of all trades.


Why? If someone chooses to have a broad skill base, rather than a specialised one, who's to say that they can't? Specialisation may bring certain benefits, but being a JOAT has it's up-sides as well. It's a choice based on what the individual feels is important. I chose not to train for capitals, instead I spent my training time in cruiser/ battlecruiser sized ships for all races. My choice, based on what I enjoy doing. And I'm not going to put up with having to do it all over again every year.

One of the worst ideas I've ever seen on this board, and that's really saying something. This just has to be a troll, I simply can't accept that anyone who has played Eve for more than a day could think this is a good idea. How does making everyone re-train the same skills over and over (killing/ dramatically slowing character progression) add to the fun?
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