These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Broker fee will increase to 5% and transaction taxes to 2.5%
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm.
#81 - 2016-03-26 14:14:48 UTC
Without courier contracts no citadel will come anywhere close to replacing a trade hub.

Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Lowsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#82 - 2016-03-26 16:03:57 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Why is it there whenever there is a change to the economy the typical post is:

"You'll kill the game!"
"You just wrecked the economy!"
"You just handed [insert the villain du jour] an unbeateable advantage!!"

And yet....they never come to pass.

Do carry on with your predictions of doom and gloom...they eat it up on the forums just as they do in real life.
I wasn't trying to predict doom and gloom, rather understand what the opporunities/risks are. I readily admit my game experience is too limited to know what will happen so that's why I was asking what more knowledgeable people in this forum predict.

POCO's have generated gameplay as exemplified by the recent Eve Uni attacks on PIRAT. And skill injectors have created opporunities.

Clearly with the proposed taxes, CCP wants to push trade towards citadel markets.

Establishing a New Jita or New Amarr would gain more than 1%, wouldn't it? Besides going after the trade hub market, what about citadels in low traffic areas where people try to create their own markets? Will FW groups try to use a citadel just for their own members market or is the citadel cost too high? Will it create more regionalized markets instead of so concentrated in Jita? Will this create a boon for mercenary groups hired to defend/attack citadels?
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#83 - 2016-03-26 18:21:08 UTC
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
[quote=Tipa Riot]..................

My guess is that he is just happy for his alliance to get to collect trade fees in high sec Roll


Pathetic...

I guess from your style, however, that you are an economist or one that subscribes to that pseudo-science based upon a false premise.

Note: All the modern states that have subscribed to Keynesian (sic) economic theory are now hideously in debt; with a few exploiting it mercilessly.

The fees should have been higher all the time to pay for station upkeep and CONCORD - at the very least.

- Sales Tax (VAT) ~20%

- Corporation Tax 10-30%

- Broker Fees 10-40%

Figures based upon RL examples like that would have been much more sensible. Then there wouldn't need to be such change now to allow the players to take control if they wished.

And yes, I had indeed, perhaps erroneously, expected better here than trolling.


You are missing a"little" point about VAT taxes. You compensate the tax will pay on the final product with the tax you paid on the initial product.
Only the final purchaser pay the tax and it is 20% of the value of the final product.

With the new trading taxes we will end paying 5% at each stage.
As each seller will want to recoup the increased cost it will become a impressive compound effect, especially for items that have production several steps.

Moon mineral cost 105 % of the previous price -> T2 crafting material 105% -> final item 105% = 115,7%

Add some extra passage between miners, industrialists, bulk sellers and retail sellers and in no time you will get well above 125% of the previous price.


Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2016-03-26 23:02:58 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
.



What are you hiding mr honk?
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#85 - 2016-03-26 23:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron Honk
.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#86 - 2016-03-27 00:46:40 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
[quote=Tipa Riot]..................

My guess is that he is just happy for his alliance to get to collect trade fees in high sec Roll


Pathetic...

I guess from your style, however, that you are an economist or one that subscribes to that pseudo-science based upon a false premise.

Note: All the modern states that have subscribed to Keynesian (sic) economic theory are now hideously in debt; with a few exploiting it mercilessly.

The fees should have been higher all the time to pay for station upkeep and CONCORD - at the very least.

- Sales Tax (VAT) ~20%

- Corporation Tax 10-30%

- Broker Fees 10-40%

Figures based upon RL examples like that would have been much more sensible. Then there wouldn't need to be such change now to allow the players to take control if they wished.

And yes, I had indeed, perhaps erroneously, expected better here than trolling.


You are missing a"little" point about VAT taxes. You compensate the tax will pay on the final product with the tax you paid on the initial product.
Only the final purchaser pay the tax and it is 20% of the value of the final product.

With the new trading taxes we will end paying 5% at each stage.
As each seller will want to recoup the increased cost it will become a impressive compound effect, especially for items that have production several steps.

Moon mineral cost 105 % of the previous price -> T2 crafting material 105% -> final item 105% = 115,7%

Add some extra passage between miners, industrialists, bulk sellers and retail sellers and in no time you will get well above 125% of the previous price.




You mean like robotics...oh wait...no. You can make those without having to buy stuff from a station trader, in fact i bet most do. One way around paying taxes is to vertically integrate. If I buy the base inputs and then build up to the final good I don't have to pay the tax at each stage...which has always been the case, it is just increasing now.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Fin Aele
Doomheim
#87 - 2016-03-28 02:28:36 UTC
I think these changes are terrible. One thing I haven't seen pointed out is that the new transaction tax is actually larger than today's 2*brokers+1*transaction standard station trade.

I have already started liquidating my trade assets and scaling back my buy orders. and have begun thinking about what I will use for income next (incursions seem like the safest isk/hr alternative).
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#88 - 2016-03-28 07:53:27 UTC
Fin Aele wrote:
I think these changes are terrible. One thing I haven't seen pointed out is that the new transaction tax is actually larger than today's 2*brokers+1*transaction standard station trade.

I have already started liquidating my trade assets and scaling back my buy orders. and have begun thinking about what I will use for income next (incursions seem like the safest isk/hr alternative).


The market will probably still be profitable, but nobody can say how the tides will change... I have liquidated everything as well and just waiting on the release date
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm.
#89 - 2016-03-28 15:31:35 UTC
Fin Aele wrote:
I think these changes are terrible. One thing I haven't seen pointed out is that the new transaction tax is actually larger than today's 2*brokers+1*transaction standard station trade.

I have already started liquidating my trade assets and scaling back my buy orders. and have begun thinking about what I will use for income next (incursions seem like the safest isk/hr alternative).


Why would you not just pass on costs to consumers?

Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Lowsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net
Fin Aele
Doomheim
#90 - 2016-03-28 15:51:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Fin Aele
Jacabon Mere wrote:
Fin Aele wrote:
I think these changes are terrible. One thing I haven't seen pointed out is that the new transaction tax is actually larger than today's 2*brokers+1*transaction standard station trade.

I have already started liquidating my trade assets and scaling back my buy orders. and have begun thinking about what I will use for income next (incursions seem like the safest isk/hr alternative).


Why would you not just pass on costs to consumers?


Because I foresee less people selling into Buy Orders as the gap between buy/sell will be huge.

Also, imagine trading ships under the new system. Either you have massive amounts of ISK between buy and sell, or you have to deal with hauling gank magnet freighters that won't even hold that large of a stock. I am generally talking about T2/pirate ships here.

If the Citadel gets blown up, asset safety still means I have to haul and relist potentially many freighters worth of items. I will have have to pay broker's fees a second time, and then have the hassle of relisting all of my orders. All in all I love the player driven economy, but there are some things that are just too annoying to have in the hands of the players. Managing the market is one thing I am perfectly content with the NPC overlords.

To sum it up, this new market sounds like a huge hassle. It may become more appealing to press F1 in an Incursion fleet. I don't enjoy ISK earning period, I just need it to fund my main's pvp.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#91 - 2016-03-28 16:16:49 UTC
Fin Aele wrote:
[quote=Jacabon Mere]

Because I foresee less people selling into Buy Orders as the gap between buy/sell will be huge.

Also, imagine trading ships under the new system. Either you have massive amounts of ISK between buy and sell, or you have to deal with hauling gank magnet freighters that won't even hold that large of a stock. I am generally talking about T2/pirate ships here.

If the Citadel gets blown up, asset safety still means I have to haul and relist potentially many freighters worth of items. I will have have to pay broker's fees a second time, and then have the hassle of relisting all of my orders. All in all I love the player driven economy, but there are some things that are just too annoying to have in the hands of the players. Managing the market is one thing I am perfectly content with the NPC overlords.

To sum it up, this new market sounds like a huge hassle. It may become more appealing to press F1 in an Incursion fleet. I don't enjoy ISK earning period, I just need it to fund my main's pvp.



I currently trade under what you call "Huge" margins.

9-10% margin is by no means huge, even for T2 and pirate ships.

People dump to buys if it is within the regional average +/- a value they are happy with.

Most people will move their margins (So, I will move to say, 15% minimum instead of 10%) and grumble, and carry on in the NPC stations.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Cista2
EVE Museum
#92 - 2016-03-28 17:54:37 UTC
Will the orders in the citadels show up in the regional market overview?

If that is the case, then trade volume will be driven towards big citadels, no doubt about it. You wouldn't be able to sell anything from Jita 4-4 if your sell price is 3-4% higher than the neighbour. And when a miner comes with his haul he will dump it at the best price he can get.

My channel: "Signatures" -