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Show of support for getting dev time for fixing the blob 1000 VS 1 AKA The Alpha Problem.

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Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#81 - 2012-01-12 15:25:33 UTC
Asking CCP to fix Alpha? What, are you nuts? And how exactly are the Goons supposed to rule Eve if they fixed that?
I mean really have you thought this through? If you did that you might actually have fleets of varying sizes roaming Zero and then the next thing you know we would have smaller groups trying to enter Zero.

The next thing you will probably be asking for is some mechanism other than gate ganks at the entry points. Geez, not long after that we would have random people wandering all over Zero looking for a fight.... Nooo! we can't allow that! Sorry...

but can we get a CCP Forum Moderator to just shut this thread down please and ban everyone even suggesting such an idea. Let's do that right now, otherwise the Developers will have to do a lot of coding.


Sheesh! What was that guy thinking!Blink
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#82 - 2012-01-12 15:32:43 UTC
ASadOldGit wrote:
There are a few good arguments in here, and I'm hardly in a position to dispute them, but this prompted me to look up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_tactics, and compare it.

I would guess that "Force concentration" is what people are complaining about, but it would be interesting if some of the other tactics were more viable in this game. Obviously, things involving weather or terrain don't really apply to a space environment (and hiding behind asteroids and using "smoke-screens" of some kind would involve line-of-sight calculations which people have argued against in other threads).

"Camouflage", I guess, has transformed into cloaking, but to be consistent with that idea, if I'm "found", I can be "lost" again if I use the right tactics. So why can't I cloak if someone has target-lock on me? I'm technically harmless while cloaked, right? (I'm sure someone will come up with a gameplay reason why that would be "overpowered", but that's just an example.)

"Deception" would be interesting - what if I could disguise myself as blue temporarily and warp into the middle of an enemy fleet - surprise!
Or disguise myself as an asteroid, as has been mentioned in other threads.

"ECM" you all know and love - I'm sure 200 Falcons dropping in to say "Hi" are welcomed with open arms!
A variation on that though, is radio jamming - what if someone could disrupt the enemies fleet chat? (everyone would go to voice/TS3, etc, but it would certainly make things interesting. Perhaps too disruptive for a computer game, though, which is hardly a life or death situation...)

"Flanking" is something that could be interesting - is it possible to do that in EVE? It says the main goal of flanking is to restrict movement, which I suppose the bubble does now.

A futuristic equivalent of fortifications could be the projection of a force-field around whom you suspect to be the alpha-target - something projected by logis for example, that can absorb enormous amounts of firepower, perhaps blocking out-going weapons fire, and having longish cycle times, to balance it. Would that force/encourage the selection of multiple alpha-targets by the other fleet, perhaps with bluffing attacks on false-alphas so logis protect the wrong target?
(Clarification: a force-field prevents damage, whereas a logi heals damage already done, therefore it's different to just having extra logis)


Seriously Forum Moderators? This guy actually knows what he is talking about and has seriously legitimate questions and ideas for game improvement. BAN HIM NOW AND SHUT DOWN THIS THREAD BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!
Valei Khurelem
#83 - 2012-01-12 15:35:23 UTC
Don't worry, goonswarm will do CCP's job and troll him off the bored like the rest of these vile pundits who want a fun game to play.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-01-12 15:36:06 UTC
one of the problems that is keeping flanking and sneak attacks from happening is local. hard to hide a fleet anywhere when the enemy has scouts bouncing around the closest gates looking in local
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#85 - 2012-01-12 15:38:18 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Don't worry, goonswarm will do CCP's job and troll him off the bored like the rest of these vile pundits who want a fun game to play.


really?

when do you figure that will happen

page 10?
Valei Khurelem
#86 - 2012-01-12 15:47:33 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Don't worry, goonswarm will do CCP's job and troll him off the bored like the rest of these vile pundits who want a fun game to play.


really?

when do you figure that will happen

page 10?


Well, they'll probably get tired from posting too much and have to log for a nap. :P

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#87 - 2012-01-12 15:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Martyr Theos
Andski wrote:
i have a better idea

bring more friends

lmao


This will be the death of Eve.

As a player, I have no interest in serving in this type of group.
As a subscriber, I will not pay for this type of a game.
You have lost two paying subscriptions that I am involved with because of it.
How many potential subscribers have you failed to keep as well CCP?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#88 - 2012-01-12 16:07:04 UTC
Honestly when you have multiple pulsed radar systems bouncing off one target there is going to be a mixup in the return pulses. Would certainly mess up your range.

(Yeah I used to work on this stuff)



But I don't expect changes. The RMT'ers need that blob tactic to keep their business going.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#89 - 2012-01-12 16:15:47 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Don't worry, goonswarm will do CCP's job and troll him off the bored like the rest of these vile pundits who want a fun game to play.


You have been flagged by the RMT Propaganda machine.
Your forum days are numbered.
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#90 - 2012-01-12 16:33:18 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Don't worry, goonswarm will do CCP's job and troll him off the bored like the rest of these vile pundits who want a fun game to play.


You have been flagged by the RMT Propaganda machine.
Your forum days are numbered.


QFT !!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-01-12 16:35:53 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Show of support for getting dev time for fixing the Alpha problem.

Let's take a look here. Supposedly there is an alpha problem. What is this alpha problem? "Too many people shooting at the same guy, so logistics can't keep him alive", right?

Mirima Thurander wrote:
we all know the HP buff did nothing to curb the Alpha problem

Nope, because we've just brought more people.

Mirima Thurander wrote:
we know there's a large part of eve that hates the Alpha problem

Oh really. Where are these statistics supporting this viewpoint?

Mirima Thurander wrote:
we know there a large part of EvE that wish for a more tactic's filled game*

I, for one, want more strategy when taking over systems, but it doesn't involve "nerfing alpha".

But, let's presume we've nerfed alpha somehow. We can't solve it by nerfing HP, so let's solve it by nerfing the amount of people who can lock a target. And to be fair, let's separate them into two groups, fleet members, and non-fleet members. Suddenly, buffer, resists and logis become king, and as long as you have sufficient amount of logis in your gang, you'll practically never die.

Next thread "aaaaa nerf logis".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-01-12 16:45:16 UTC
Nerf anything that causes me to lose

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-01-12 16:45:59 UTC
Martyr Theos wrote:
Asking CCP to fix Alpha? What, are you nuts? And how exactly are the Goons supposed to rule Eve if they fixed that?
I mean really have you thought this through? If you did that you might actually have fleets of varying sizes roaming Zero and then the next thing you know we would have smaller groups trying to enter Zero.

The next thing you will probably be asking for is some mechanism other than gate ganks at the entry points. Geez, not long after that we would have random people wandering all over Zero looking for a fight.... Nooo! we can't allow that! Sorry...

but can we get a CCP Forum Moderator to just shut this thread down please and ban everyone even suggesting such an idea. Let's do that right now, otherwise the Developers will have to do a lot of coding.


Sheesh! What was that guy thinking!Blink


you're kinda stupid because blobs don't keep new groups from springing up in nullsec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#94 - 2012-01-12 16:52:19 UTC
So, aside from the thread being full of unproductive trolling and bad ideas, am I the only one that realizes that this is not an issue of dev time, but rather of game designer time and lots and lots of hard thinking?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#95 - 2012-01-12 16:56:06 UTC
How will ships Explode without alpha ?

If two fleets have a large enough compliment of logis so that they can target and repair any ship that gets locked and starts taking fire , how are ships going to expode...

Won't battles just be endless sparring with no teeth?

Perhaps they'll be more a battle of power grids in a rock paper scissors way... I guess that could be interesting in that it would require changes in tactics requiring more coodination between switiching targets and more noisy and another layer of com channels in fleets.

.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-01-12 17:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
not sure if this is stupid idea or not... Nor i think something must be done with fleet battles.... (After all i really enojy it!)

Idea is simple: make it so scanners on ships interfere with each other. Let's say 1 ship scanner system makes like 1 logical unit of white noise in some space around ship. White noise have influence on scanners around.
These values can be adjusted so let's say 100 BS in sphere of 100km will have sensor strength halfed or even worse. Then adding more ships into area will make work of ship scanners almost impossible without any unnecessary artificial limits.
After all this effect can be linked to real physics of radars and radio....

BTW: i want to add something about "alpha". Don't forget than players in fleet have different skills, different fits, different time of reaction and different quality of internet connection and local hardware. It is simple to say "shoot" first time. But after FC gives this command every player will press those F<> keys at little different time moments. Some will complete their shoot. Some will do it "little late" and get target disappeared before shoot. Then some people need to wait some time for guns to reload while other don't. Targeting time for different pilots differs too. So these "alpha strike by whole fleet" is like democracy: some people say it exist but no one person in reality can show it. Yes. Most of a time target is dying instantly but i have met few times when our fleet wasn't able to kill heavily supported HAC. Just because of desynchronization between pilots. Fleet ops don't need skills and experience you know Big smile

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Valei Khurelem
#97 - 2012-01-12 17:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Martyr Theos wrote:
Andski wrote:
i have a better idea

bring more friends

lmao


This will be the death of Eve.

As a player, I have no interest in serving in this type of group.
As a subscriber, I will not pay for this type of a game.
You have lost two paying subscriptions that I am involved with because of it.
How many potential subscribers have you failed to keep as well CCP?


It will be, the problem here is that CCP have somehow manage to make the idea of socialising with people an unpleasant chore and now you have asshats running around who take this idea that seriously that there's something somehow wrong with you if you just want to play just play a game and have fun instead.

I'll tell you what it's like, it would be like if the police forced you to join facebook and post all your personal details up there and be made to talk to people you don't even really like then if you decided you wanted to go and do something else for awhile they'd put you in prison or make you do community service as punishment.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2012-01-12 18:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Andski wrote:
Nerf anything that causes me to lose


not precisely.. your fleets still can hold vast superiority on the field.. just with different tactics and other stuff.. simultaneous battles on different places... rewarping wings from one stage to another .. simultaneously dissengaging/engaging ..

Fights will take probably longer, will be more paced and more fun .. results could be the same however ship destroyed would increase which is always good.. Cool

However same stuff can be done with "complex" sovereignty mechanics.. sort of..

side note : Technical difficulties aside
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#99 - 2012-01-12 18:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Messoroz
Abdiel Kavash wrote:


Quote:
"ECM" you all know and love - I'm sure 200 Falcons dropping in to say "Hi" are welcomed with open arms!
A variation on that though, is radio jamming - what if someone could disrupt the enemies fleet chat? (everyone would go to voice/TS3, etc, but it would certainly make things interesting. Perhaps too disruptive for a computer game, though, which is hardly a life or death situation...)

As you already pointed out, "jamming" in-game comms is completely useless. Messing with out of game comms does happen at alliance level, and is one of the hardest hits you can inflict to a fleet.


Let's just be serious and say NOBODY who pvps on a regular basis in groups, ever uses the horrid turd known as EVE Voice when they can use TS3 or mumble which has hundreds of thousands of more features and uses with superior UIs. Plus when your eve client crashes your comm client doesn't, meaning you aren't fudged
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2012-01-12 18:15:41 UTC
Except logis will end up forcing every fight to a stalemate.

Fun fights, indeed.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat