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[Citadels Release] Capital Ship changes reaching Singularity!

First post
Author
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#161 - 2016-03-23 22:31:33 UTC
Soleil Fournier wrote:
Round 2 feedback:
[snip]
I can't abandon fighters at the moment. So if I leave the field and can't go back, I'm screwed.

Speaking of which, fighters need to warp...Back when you wanted to take warp away from fighters on TQ during the drone assist changes, we fought to keep fighters warping and stated that it was a unique feature that should be preserved. You guys agreed. So lets get the warping again please, even if the only warp they do is to follow us offgrid.
[snip]
Wall of text done, hope this helps some.

The latest build might have the Abandon option in now. If it doesn't, then it should get picked up in the next update.

You can also now recall fighters from off-grid. They now have their own equivalent of e-warp that lets them get back to your ship. However they won't be warping after targets, and you wan't be able to tell them to warp to any other location. (Again, this might or might not have gotten in to today's build, but it is implemented in our dev branch)

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Also CCP are you meant to be able to BM fighters? atm it lets carrier pilots bounce around the feild and makes it very easy for the enemy to intercept them

Yup I also noticed this one today too. I've already got it fixed and awaiting testing. You will not be able to bookmark fighters once this is released.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#162 - 2016-03-23 22:40:57 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
The power grid on the Ninazu is too low!
I'ts probably the same for the other FAX too.
...
If I did not have the concord reps I would need 3 power grid rigs for t2 reps if that would even be enough, and if capital cap boosters where seeded I would want to fit at least one of them too forcing me to leave highslots empty
This is just too little fitting space to make a nice fit happen.

I think that the Ninazu should have around 1.4mil PG if not more with lvl 5 skills so that a good active tank fit without empty slots and fitting rigs is possible.


It is not the only faux. The Amarr and Caldari one have terrible powergrids for the new mods and you keep asking yourself, is this how a triage carrier should be fit - with 2 remore reps because you can hardly fit 3 or 4.

Seems odd with 6 highs (well 5 if you go triage).

The drone bonus is okay, I like it but I liked my triage Chimera a little better than the Minokawa. The range with triage is just lol and you die horribly by capping yourself out.
So fitting a battery and a cap booster comes to mind but they have ridiculous powergrid requirements and your new capital Osprey with a capital prop mod has no powergrid left to fit neither a battery or a cap booster.

As Crazy said those capital one-time protection mods against dumbdays don't work at all - well they do, the commit suicide by activation and and are useless.

The carriers (the combat-ish ones) have okay powergrid and cpu. You can fit them properly but a squad of slightly damaged light fighters or support or heavy ones (yes I did put some on an Aeon) result in zombie threads (coding term) and do not respond to any command anymore.
They become zombie or Schroedinger's drones, as in they are either destroyed or not, depending how you look at it.

All the 6000 trillion citadels in the same solar system (oh man if only New Eden had more than one..) make the client become a picture show.

I think it would be okay if fauxes have a real remote rep range. That tech 2 long point range is - let's say too little for a 2 billion boat.
EVE will not break when fauxes get proper powergrids.

And don't get me started on that "fighter" versus "fighter" combat. The meta will be that every mothership will have a billion of Equites to shoot the opponent fighters of the field and one Siren to pin something forever and one heavy or light fighter squad to shoot the other one.
Final thought, there will be a huge sale of nyxes, aeons and wyvers soon-ish since you can nano a hel and why would you fly any other boat?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#163 - 2016-03-23 22:41:39 UTC
Sweet! Good to see progress being made. Until now I couldn't really test the fighters as much as I'd hoped because they would bug out or I'd forget them and warp, and the carrier would no longer be able to launch anything from that tube. Now it should be possible to do some real testing.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#164 - 2016-03-23 22:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
elitatwo wrote:
Final thought, there will be a huge sale of nyxes, aeons and wyvers soon-ish since you can nano a hel and why would you fly any other boat?

Also Thanatoses since they lose half the damage bonus, which was just barely enough to choose them over Archons or Chimeras in some cases. Also with Nidhoggurs getting the same damage bonus as well as significantly better ship and fighter speeds, there's no real reason to use a Thanatos unless you're expecting your fighters to get shot just a little but not a lot.

It seems like it would be better to have only the Thanatos and Nyx get damage bonuses (and significantly larger bonuses like 30% to make it a viable alternative to a 25% tank bonus) and give the Nidhoggur and Hel the speed/agility/sig radius bonuses Minmatar are famous for.
Soleil Fournier
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#165 - 2016-03-23 23:04:36 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:

The latest build might have the Abandon option in now. If it doesn't, then it should get picked up in the next update.

You can also now recall fighters from off-grid. They now have their own equivalent of e-warp that lets them get back to your ship. However they won't be warping after targets, and you wan't be able to tell them to warp to any other location. (Again, this might or might not have gotten in to today's build, but it is implemented in our dev branch)


Love it, thank you
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#166 - 2016-03-23 23:06:22 UTC
Soleil Fournier wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:

The latest build might have the Abandon option in now. If it doesn't, then it should get picked up in the next update.

You can also now recall fighters from off-grid. They now have their own equivalent of e-warp that lets them get back to your ship. However they won't be warping after targets, and you wan't be able to tell them to warp to any other location. (Again, this might or might not have gotten in to today's build, but it is implemented in our dev branch)


Love it, thank you


Oh yes please that would make my weekend!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Alex Lenin
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#167 - 2016-03-24 00:21:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alex Lenin
capital size Anciliary Shield Booster will be powerful as hell on shield Lif

Combat mathematics time:

booster capacity 900m3
Navy Cap Booster 3200 volume 96m3

and will be 9 standart cycle with charges.

and now bonuses:
t2 trige shield booster amount bonus - +120%
one Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier - +45% (just 100M isk in jita)
minmatar carrier bonus (lvl 5) - +37.5%
Strong Blue Pill Booster - +30% ( boosters are not stacking penalized. )
Overload - +10% (ASB's have near-zero overheating damage)

summary:

(1+1,2) * (1+0,45*0.869) * (1+0.375*0.571) * 1.3 * (1+0.1*0.283) = 4.96

shield bonus per cycle - 13600
9 cycle

13600 * 9 * 4.96 = 607 104 shield hp per ONE module with ZERO capacity using

and you can fit 2 ASB's: fit + EE-603
4 empty slots for 2 ASB's, Shield Boost Amplifier and Capital Flex Shield Hardener II
and free PG: 75000+75000 for ASB's 9000 for Flex Hardener
and free CPU: 300+300 for ASB's, 48 for Flex Hardener, 77 for SBA

and just with two invuls (EFT say it's x2.66 multiplication), without fleet bonuses, without Flex you have EHP tank:
607104 * 2 * 2.66 = 3 229 793 omnidamage

3 229 793 damade you need make only to discharge two ASB's and if you will be not so fast Lif just reload one of ASB.

Plz tell me that I made a mistake.

P.S. 3 229 793 EHP and one minute reload of ASB means 53K DPS tank (with zero cap using)
P.P.S. In fleet hangar you can carry 104 charges, that mean 11 full clips, that mean 5 min of tanking under 53K DPS.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2016-03-24 00:38:56 UTC
By the way, I haven't seen any Cap Booster 3200 charges on the market yet, nor various new capital modules like the Capital Capacitor Booster... Or has that already been mentioned somewhere I haven't seen? My Nina's capacitor is rather useless without that.

(Other missing items include things like Capital Ancillary Armor Repairer, Capital Cap Battery, Capital Ancillary Remote Shield Booster, e
Lugh Crow-Slave
#169 - 2016-03-24 01:38:24 UTC
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Final thought, there will be a huge sale of nyxes, aeons and wyvers soon-ish since you can nano a hel and why would you fly any other boat?

Also Thanatoses since they lose half the damage bonus, which was just barely enough to choose them over Archons or Chimeras in some cases. Also with Nidhoggurs getting the same damage bonus as well as significantly better ship and fighter speeds, there's no real reason to use a Thanatos unless you're expecting your fighters to get shot just a little but not a lot.

It seems like it would be better to have only the Thanatos and Nyx get damage bonuses (and significantly larger bonuses like 30% to make it a viable alternative to a 25% tank bonus) and give the Nidhoggur and Hel the speed/agility/sig radius bonuses Minmatar are famous for.



I think you are forgetting a key attribute the nyx and than have, A much larger fighter bay the thans is nearly 20km larger than a chimeras thats over 2 extra flights of lights. also the nid can't tank as well as the than and again has slightly few fighters
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#170 - 2016-03-24 01:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Final thought, there will be a huge sale of nyxes, aeons and wyvers soon-ish since you can nano a hel and why would you fly any other boat?

Also Thanatoses since they lose half the damage bonus, which was just barely enough to choose them over Archons or Chimeras in some cases. Also with Nidhoggurs getting the same damage bonus as well as significantly better ship and fighter speeds, there's no real reason to use a Thanatos unless you're expecting your fighters to get shot just a little but not a lot.

It seems like it would be better to have only the Thanatos and Nyx get damage bonuses (and significantly larger bonuses like 30% to make it a viable alternative to a 25% tank bonus) and give the Nidhoggur and Hel the speed/agility/sig radius bonuses Minmatar are famous for.



I think you are forgetting a key attribute the nyx and than have, A much larger fighter bay the thans is nearly 20km larger than a chimeras thats over 2 extra flights of lights. also the nid can't tank as well as the than and again has slightly few fighters

Sure, it has more space for fighters so the people who kill you have more to loot.

Edit: As for the Nidhoggur, I don't think you realize how powerful speed and the ability to dictate range can be. There's a common trait between a lot of widely used ships like the Garmur, Svipul, Orthrus, Omen Navy Issue, Cynabal, Oracle, Tornado, Sleipnir, Machariel, and Barghest. That trait is that they have enough range and speed to control the engagement against targets they choose to fight, and their speed allows them to get away from targets they can't win against. Admittedly that's a little less effective at capital level, but the Nidhoggur still has a significant mobility advantage against other capitals, and even some battleships. The fighter speed bonus is also effectively a bonus to range as well as effectiveness against smaller ships that can outrun other carriers' fighters.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#171 - 2016-03-24 02:14:38 UTC
Any chance the Networked sensor Array will get a neat animation?
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#172 - 2016-03-24 02:54:35 UTC
I do not see why fighters should have such a long cooldown on their microwarp drive if you can use a scram to turn it off

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.

Kieron VonDeux
#173 - 2016-03-24 02:54:35 UTC
I hope CCP actually makes the Niddy and Hel usable instead of keeping them as the black sheep they have been for years.

Saying that someone may find them useful doesn't cut it, and just because nearly everyone has trained something else doesn't mean they shouldn't have their time in the sun.

The LIF is for POS repping now.

Rock Brackenshield
Wormhole's Watch
#174 - 2016-03-24 03:00:59 UTC
Poked around a bit and saw an incredibly slow RoF on XL Torp launchers, and after it being pointed out to me on Reddit, saw an 80% RoF speedup for the Siege Module II, making launchers usable in Siege.

Will the Levi see a role/skill bonus for RoF so it doesn't have to deal with (for me) an ~88s RoF? I'm worried that in its current state, that'll just encourage folks to never fit launchers on a Levi, and just go with a pure auxiliary fit (Smartbombs, neuts, a DD, and/or cloak) rather than something more.. standard, you could say?

No idea if this is true for other dreads/Titans at all, I didn't check.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#175 - 2016-03-24 04:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
I hope CCP actually makes the Niddy and Hel usable instead of keeping them as the black sheep they have been for years.

Saying that someone may find them useful doesn't cut it, and just because nearly everyone has trained something else doesn't mean they shouldn't have their time in the sun.

The LIF is for POS repping now.



well i have already found a very powerful use for the new nid in WH ^.^


and lol if you think any shield RR ship is going to be usefull




any chance we can change the E-war optimal range to a strength bonuse (doesn't need to be 5%) except on the Thanatos currently that extra range doesn't help these fighters at all and a power bonus would give more diversity in carrier use. atm E-war fighters are just as strong or weaker than their mid slot counterparts but you have to give up 1/3 of your DPS to use them that's just to week

EDIT

i wanted to clarify i dont think that the base E-war fighters should get stronger in base stats i find it would be much better for them to get stronger along with a racial carrier. this would also keep them from getting to strong on supers and citadels where more than one flight can be used
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#176 - 2016-03-24 05:12:05 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
I hope CCP actually makes the Niddy and Hel usable instead of keeping them as the black sheep they have been for years.

Saying that someone may find them useful doesn't cut it, and just because nearly everyone has trained something else doesn't mean they shouldn't have their time in the sun.

The LIF is for POS repping now.



well i have already found a very powerful use for the new nid in WH ^.^


and lol if you think any shield RR ship is going to be usefull




any chance we can change the E-war optimal range to a strength bonuse (doesn't need to be 5%) except on the Thanatos currently that extra range doesn't help these fighters at all and a power bonus would give more diversity in carrier use. atm E-war fighters are just as strong or weaker than their mid slot counterparts but you have to give up 1/3 of your DPS to use them that's just to week

Indeed. It really feels like if support fighters are to get any use the carriers either need a dedicated launch tube for them or they need to be absurdly powerful to the point they'd be considered OP. Sacrificing 1/3 of the DPS is just far too high of a price for what they do.

Also, it seems really weird that the Networked Sensor Array gives a weapon timer when it's basically a very powerful Sensor Booster. It doesn't directly do anything aggressive that should prevent docking or refitting. It just lets you lock faster and more reliably.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#177 - 2016-03-24 05:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


any chance we can change the E-war optimal range to a strength bonuse (doesn't need to be 5%) except on the Thanatos currently that extra range doesn't help these fighters at all and a power bonus would give more diversity in carrier use. atm E-war fighters are just as strong or weaker than their mid slot counterparts but you have to give up 1/3 of your DPS to use them that's just to week

Indeed. It really feels like if support fighters are to get any use the carriers either need a dedicated launch tube for them or they need to be absurdly powerful to the point they'd be considered OP. Sacrificing 1/3 of the DPS is just far too high of a price for what they do.



not sure it needs to go that far a simple local bonus on the carrier to the racial type should be more than enough to make them worth putting a flight or two in your bay. remember citadels and supers can field more than one flight of these so altering the base stat of the fighter could cause issues.

the idea of giving carriers 4 flights 3 light 1 support would also work and i think this would be fine but it would detract from a way to more define the carriers. Giving pilots a reason to train more than one
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#178 - 2016-03-24 05:32:43 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the idea of giving carriers 4 flights 3 light 1 support would also work and i think this would be fine but it would detract from a way to more define the carriers. Giving pilots a reason to train more than one

Unless they get a huge bonus to their type of support fighter and one of them proves to be very overpowered, that won't determine what carrier gets used or which ones people will train. The slot layout and other hull bonuses are far more important. For example, if you're in an armor fleet and want to live, you're going to pick an Archon regardless of other bonuses. Same for Chimera in a shield fleet. If you don't care about survival, you'll pick the Nidhoggur for that extra speed//range and damage.

Having a bigger bonus to the racial support fighters wouldn't be enough to significantly sway that decision unless it's very powerful, which I only see happening for the neut or ECM fighters, and those two carriers will be overused already.

The only balanced way I can see of making the racial support fighter bonus a big enough to influence the carrier choice would be if they unlocked a special fourth ability only usable by that carrier. That would probably only give the Archon and Chimera an even bigger advantage though since neuts and ECM seem more abusable than point or web.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#179 - 2016-03-24 05:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the idea of giving carriers 4 flights 3 light 1 support would also work and i think this would be fine but it would detract from a way to more define the carriers. Giving pilots a reason to train more than one

Unless they get a huge bonus to their type of support fighter and one of them proves to be very overpowered, that won't determine what carrier gets used or which ones people will train. The slot layout and other hull bonuses are far more important. For example, if you're in an armor fleet and want to live, you're going to pick an Archon regardless of other bonuses. Same for Chimera in a shield fleet. If you don't care about survival, you'll pick the Nidhoggur for that extra speed//range and damage.

Having a bigger bonus to the racial support fighters wouldn't be enough to significantly sway that decision unless it's very powerful, which I only see happening for the neut or ECM fighters, and those two carriers will be overused already.

The only balanced way I can see of making the racial support fighter bonus a big enough to influence the carrier choice would be if they unlocked a special fourth ability only usable by that carrier. That would probably only give the Archon and Chimera an even bigger advantage though since neuts and ECM seem more abusable than point or web.


not true a moderate bonus would not make them all that powerful like i said probably less than 5% per level the only carrier i see losing out on this is the than do to the points being well almost pointless but that is the same as now.


the web fighters play very well into the new nid design and they would make it a viable option

nuets and ecm would ofc be attractive as well


the idea that a shield fleet will almost always take a chimera and and armor fleet will almost always take an archon is flawed unless in large fleets. in small ones the smaller fighter bays and lack of survivability bonuses will make these carriers vulnerable their tank means nothing if they can no longer field fighters.

and while again i see little issue in giving carriers another flight so they can field these w/o the loss of dps it would not provide another point of incentive to fly one over the other (btw i dont mean this will be the reason to chose one over the other just that it would be a small factor). It also takes a choice away as to what set up i'm fielding atm it will always be 3 lights 1 support where as now there is a choice as to weather i want 3 lights or 1 support
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#180 - 2016-03-24 05:58:06 UTC
Fair enough, but in what situations would it be worth dropping a squad of lights to use a support squad? The only thing I can think of is if you really need webs because somebody messed up the fit and/or fleet composition.