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FW vs. NPC null sec

Author
Denuo Secus
#1 - 2012-01-12 09:44:19 UTC
Hi all,

we are a small independent corp doing FW. It's fun so far. But recently I considered if NPC null sec could be another option for us. Somewhere here I read that small corps are on the increase in NPC null sec. We want to keep our independence and won't join an ally. This is why sov null sec wouldn't be an option for us. But nevertheless we'd work together with other (small) groups. We do this in FW as well right now.

My questions:

(1) In FW there are clear and obvious parties: militia allies and war targets. Simple. Then there are pirates. That's it. If it's orange or red: shoot it. But how is it in NPC null sec, generally speaking? Assuming we don't want to be pirate...are there more or less clear parties there as well or is it more "everyone against everyone". Forgive me if this question is noobish...I was in null sec only once, and there was NRDS politics. We had strict KOS lists there as well.

(2) To all who tried this already: how is NPC null sec compared to FW low sec? More action? More possibilities for an income? More fun? We're not unlucky with FW. I just consider if there are even better options.

Thanks for any hint!
Othran
Route One
#2 - 2012-01-12 11:12:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
1) There's no such thing as "pirates" in null. Everyone is a valid target unless your corp decides otherwise. So its your decision if you want to go NBSI or NRDS - although NRDS will get your pilots killed a lot more often. Some corps in npc null work together, some don't - its nothing like sov null which is usually vast oceans of blueness and drama as far as the eye can see;

2) Depends on which bit of npc null and the timezone you play in. Great Wildlands for example is without doubt the most useless/pointless part of npc null (it only has 3 systems with stations) so not much goes on there. Curse has 35 systems with stations so its usually always busy.

I'll leave income stuff to someone else as I don't do PVE.

Edit - there was some Japanese minnie FW corp who used to play in GW, they were NBSI in low-sec and NRDS in GW as they were friendly with RE-AL who were main occupants. So you can run a seperate policy for both places if you can be bothered with setting/unsetting all the standings.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#3 - 2012-01-12 11:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Simple solution for you.. Join Caldari Militia because we have way more targets than we can shoot. Move to Black Rise or Placid and then you get best of both worlds as you will have very easy access to null sec with 2 jump in points for Syndicate, 2 for Cloud Ring and 1 for Pure Blind. You really can't get much better than that if you are after PVP with various options. On top of this you always have options to pirate or fight pirates because it's low sec systems or just shoot FW targets in low sec.


As for targets in Null it's pretty much standard operating procedures for just about anyone in null sec to shoot anyone that is not blue to them . There are very, very few if not only one place in null sec that is not red don't shoot (NRDS) that one place is Providence but I haven't been there in over a year and I know there has been a lot of changing hands of systems so I dunno how well their NRDS policy is holding up.
Byron D
No Duck's Allowed
#4 - 2012-01-12 12:45:37 UTC
Syndicate is awesome for small and mid scale pvp against terribad entities (especially on US TZ). OTOH, you'll need to make your isk mainly on alts, as it's prolly the worst nullsec in eve for isk making.

To answer your questions :

1. It's p much everyone against everyone. Ofc you can blue some entities, but where would the fun be in that ?

2. Depends what do you want in general. If you want isk whoring and pvp every now and then , move to stain , try and blue everyone. If you want pvp 23/7 with isk grinding just to pay for your assploded ships, as I said, move to syndicate, don't blue anyone.


Tbh I'd say do both. Find a nullsec within 1 or 2 carrier jumps of your fw area, jump some ships there, leave some clones and switch back and forth depending on activity levels :)
JasonXXL
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-01-12 15:48:00 UTC
I agree with Mutnin: join CalMil. You will get plenty of targets in lowsec (GalMil, SC, Snuff, Horns, RnK) and you have really easy acces to nullsec.
Also, as every guy with an alt appears to know: you can easy farm caldari missions to make nice iskers.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-12 15:59:09 UTC
Othran wrote:
2) Depends on which bit of npc null and the timezone you play in. Great Wildlands for example is without doubt the most useless/pointless part of npc null (it only has 3 systems with stations) so not much goes on there. Curse has 35 systems with stations so its usually always busy.


Not to totally derail, but would that mean the Great Wildlands could be nicer for ninja plexing, as it might be less busy? As long as you didn't need station access?
Othran
Route One
#7 - 2012-01-12 16:14:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Othran wrote:
2) Depends on which bit of npc null and the timezone you play in. Great Wildlands for example is without doubt the most useless/pointless part of npc null (it only has 3 systems with stations) so not much goes on there. Curse has 35 systems with stations so its usually always busy.


Not to totally derail, but would that mean the Great Wildlands could be nicer for ninja plexing, as it might be less busy? As long as you didn't need station access?


Its a popular place for working off negative sec status in a Hound Blink

Plexing, yeah but your problems for that sort of stuff are always going to be the approaches to Empire - BVIP-9, 7Q-8Z2, and N-RAEL where I'm pleased to say they still bubble the planets next to gates Twisted

If you have a scout to get you in/out then I'm sure you won't be the first to do it. Edit - cloaky drake works too from what I've seen but not at peak-time.

Great Wildlands was once mixed npc/sov null, hence the lack of stations - in case anyone is wondering.
Denuo Secus
#8 - 2012-01-12 17:05:05 UTC
Byron D wrote:
Syndicate ... as it's prolly the worst nullsec in eve for isk making.


Why is that? Isn't null sec best place for high value exploration or just simply ratting? Also, outer ring is round the corner. I thought it's considered as 'miners heaven'?
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-01-12 18:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kessiaan
I lived in lowsec for years (started out in the Gallente militia, actually). Tried sov. nullsec in Atlas a while back, hated it, moved back to lowsec.

Now I live in Stain and it's awesome, mostly because it's just like lowsec (as an outlaw) only without the annoying sentry guns, the bit about being -10 just for living there, and it's actually possible to make some decent money out here (ratting, exploration, or missioning - Sansha's LP is worth a lot, even if you get stuck doing lv. 1s for a few days to patch up your standings, like me).

Lots of traffic, lots of neuts to shoot at, space is a lot better than lowsec but not nearly as good as sov. null for carebearing, so the big alliances don't roll through very much. Not too many camps either, there's no (feasible) way to Empire that doesn't involve a jump drive and all the main logistics hubs have stations.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#10 - 2012-01-12 18:43:24 UTC
OP- Here's a good read on nullsec space. Ripard uses Syndicate as an example of 'sovereignty' there
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/01/quote-of-week-ownership.html . The summary being that there are power blocs in NPC Space and you will need to deal with them as well.

I suspect this is one of those situations where you need to take your guys out there and find out on your own rather than listen to anyone here. But you'll probably appreciate FW better once you come back :)

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#11 - 2012-01-12 19:20:27 UTC
GWL is anything but dead! Ok outside of the 3 pipes and the three stations it might be, but there are constantly fights in the shallower parts. 7Q- is home to E8ola, who have the whole bloody system bubbled (they even bubbled all the incursion gates when it was there a week or so ago) E02 is home to RE-AL and True reign, evil NRDS slave herders, and N-D and M-M are controlled by the 99% + INK

also good to roam into etherium reach to shots the DRF, and curse is close by for fights against waffles and friends!

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.

Othran
Route One
#12 - 2012-01-12 21:19:40 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
GWL is anything but dead! Ok outside of the 3 pipes and the three stations it might be, but there are constantly fights in the shallower parts. 7Q- is home to E8ola, who have the whole bloody system bubbled (they even bubbled all the incursion gates when it was there a week or so ago) E02 is home to RE-AL and True reign, evil NRDS slave herders, and N-D and M-M are controlled by the 99% + INK

also good to roam into etherium reach to shots the DRF, and curse is close by for fights against waffles and friends!



Theres 60 systems or so in GW.

Apart from the three Empire entry systems, the three station systems and occasionally the Scalding Pass->Geminate/Cache route GW is dead.

6 systems out of 60 with signs of life means its still the most pointless waste of space in Eve. Has been since mid-2010.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-01-13 01:31:10 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
Hi all,

we are a small independent corp doing FW. It's fun so far. But recently I considered if NPC null sec could be another option for us. Somewhere here I read that small corps are on the increase in NPC null sec. We want to keep our independence and won't join an ally. This is why sov null sec wouldn't be an option for us. But nevertheless we'd work together with other (small) groups. We do this in FW as well right now.

My questions:

(1) In FW there are clear and obvious parties: militia allies and war targets. Simple. Then there are pirates. That's it. If it's orange or red: shoot it. But how is it in NPC null sec, generally speaking? Assuming we don't want to be pirate...are there more or less clear parties there as well or is it more "everyone against everyone". Forgive me if this question is noobish...I was in null sec only once, and there was NRDS politics. We had strict KOS lists there as well.

(2) To all who tried this already: how is NPC null sec compared to FW low sec? More action? More possibilities for an income? More fun? We're not unlucky with FW. I just consider if there are even better options.

Thanks for any hint!


1. All targets are free to engage unless you have been specifically ordered not to. The only thing that can really be considered true piracy in null is to hold people's pods as ransom. That alone is difficult and can be risky, if you mess with the wrong person you will often find the situation drastically reversed if his buddies show up.

Generally when in null, assume everyone that isn't in your fleet or alliance is going to kill you.

2. It's generally better than FW low sec. Most of the people in low sec aren't even going for FW but either passing through or looking for some miner to gank. Not much action really. In null sec there is a much larger chance of getting some good fights in. Especially when two large fleets collide with each other!

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-01-13 02:30:55 UTC
NPC nullsec is ok, but if you want regular small gang pvp - FW is better. Join CalMil.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Yan Li Mae
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-01-13 02:47:37 UTC
Hrett wrote:
NPC nullsec is ok, but if you want regular small gang pvp - FW is better. Join CalMil.


I have always been an firm believer in the npc nullsec theme, but this is absolutely true. Calmil is hopelessly outnumbered and outskill(point)ed. Black rise is always chock full of pirates. And my npc null corp isn't the only null entity that makes frequent visits too. If you're in the game for more fights, you really can't do any better than calmil at the moment.
Ryuce
#16 - 2012-01-13 08:09:02 UTC
There has been some good answers in this thread, so I'll just add a note regarding 0.0.

Generally when living in 0.0 you should expect for the marked to be more expensive, while your income options from time to time will be limited by hostile campers and what not. Furthermore, you will need some logistical capabilities (carriers or JF) to keep your corp stocked in case your staging systems marked isn't stocked or you prefer to bring items and ships in Empire. This could place a stress on the pilots handling this aspect, so make sure to spread this responsibility to keep the game interesting for all. Login in and having people poking you for logi runs all the time isn't going to help your logistics situation in the long run.

Furthermore, do you have the FC's within corp to keep things active. If not you'd might want to train some before going 0.0. They are what keeps a corp active and the players entertained.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#17 - 2012-01-13 11:22:30 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
Byron D wrote:
Syndicate ... as it's prolly the worst nullsec in eve for isk making.


Why is that? Isn't null sec best place for high value exploration or just simply ratting? Also, outer ring is round the corner. I thought it's considered as 'miners heaven'?


Not all space is created equally and NPC space is normally not that great compared to say sov space. It's what helps make Syndicate a pretty cool place for PVP because it's kinda like low sec people tend to just go there because they want to shoot stuff.

Added to that the upper area around MHC is awesome for roaming solo or small gang, because there is not any bottle necks unless you go down one of the pipes deeper in. If you stay up top every system has like 3 or 4 gates leading into/out of it. It's virtually impossible to get camped in a system there unless someone really just doesn't like you.

Also did I mention it's only a few jumps away from where Caldari Militia bases in low sec.. P
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#18 - 2012-01-13 11:35:36 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
OP- Here's a good read on nullsec space. Ripard uses Syndicate as an example of 'sovereignty' there
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/01/quote-of-week-ownership.html . The summary being that there are power blocs in NPC Space and you will need to deal with them as well.

I suspect this is one of those situations where you need to take your guys out there and find out on your own rather than listen to anyone here. But you'll probably appreciate FW better once you come back :)


Hes' a little out of date on his map.. I'm pretty sure 6-C area is now semi vacant aside from randoms and from what I could tell Raven Fed has moved out of the 97X area and Flying Dangerous has moved down there. Dunno what led to the moves but seems to have happened about 2 weeks ago.

Also I think he should likely give 2x-PQG to Finis Terrae as they seem to live there from what I can tell and I usually see them camping some of the sounding systems.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#19 - 2012-01-14 00:07:51 UTC
GW is the best place to go for pvp without the station games.
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#20 - 2012-01-14 01:36:08 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
OP- Here's a good read on nullsec space. Ripard uses Syndicate as an example of 'sovereignty' there
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/01/quote-of-week-ownership.html . The summary being that there are power blocs in NPC Space and you will need to deal with them as well.

I suspect this is one of those situations where you need to take your guys out there and find out on your own rather than listen to anyone here. But you'll probably appreciate FW better once you come back :)


Hes' a little out of date on his map.. I'm pretty sure 6-C area is now semi vacant aside from randoms and from what I could tell Raven Fed has moved out of the 97X area and Flying Dangerous has moved down there. Dunno what led to the moves but seems to have happened about 2 weeks ago.

Also I think he should likely give 2x-PQG to Finis Terrae as they seem to live there from what I can tell and I usually see them camping some of the sounding systems.


You would know better than I do. I was just answering the OPs question as to whether NPC space is territorial at all by linking Ripard's blog

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .