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RMT and Null Sec Alliances
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2012-01-11 23:37:42 UTC
Forum Fighter wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Forum Fighter wrote:
Let's look at this logically. Someone is selling isk to Gold Buyers/Sellers. ISK Sellers are selling isk to players. Who in the game would have so much isk that it would be tempting, worthwhile, profitable, possible, plausible or irresistable? Who has that much isk? Chribba/ Entity, a few successful market guys, Somer.blink, EOH, or tech moon farmers. Who has the most tech moons?

Clearly NCdot and PL do not invest their tech profits into their alliance


I can't tell if that's sarcasm or notOops

Go reinforce some RA/Xdeath structures, you'll find out where their money went
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2012-01-11 23:41:11 UTC
Oh, and to repeat:

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Anyone who thinks RMT/botting is sec-specific is an idiot.
met worst
Doomheim
#123 - 2012-01-11 23:54:27 UTC
Morganta wrote:
lol so now I'm a RMTer?

trollolololol

you saps are pathetic
just quit now, because things will never be the way you want them to be, so save yourself the aggravation and quit now

Hey Morgs.

To rescure myself from my "embarrassment" about this all being about Chinese Gold Farmers, I did some research on a particularly large RMT site. Identified the "errors in anonymity" and did some work.

In 20 minutes:-

I have name of the business owner, business ID, PO Box, office address, phone number etc.
If the details are correct (and I'm doing cross-checking right now) I can tell you what his house looks like and what car he drives.

I can assure you he is not Chinese. The likelihood of this being a case of mistaken identity is diminishing in that it is an unusual name and no-one else has that name in the state he resides.

This might seem creepy (although this is all on the public record) but it proves a point.

It would take CCP 20 minutes to do the same and match his details to a CC# to nail him.


The problem is we would NOT be told he was nailed so we would NOT be able to associate him to a 0.0 alliance anyway.
Prince Kobol
#124 - 2012-01-12 08:13:07 UTC
Here is another thing which nobody has mentioned yet.

Lets say a Alliance is involved in RMT.

At some point they will have to transfer isk out of the alliance to wallet to another destination. They will then have to either transfer a massive amount of isk or convert that isk to something like PLEX and again transfer it to a member of the RMT Seller.

Now if we go on the assumption that they are going to be doing this in great numbers, I mean why are you going to RMT for just a couple of PLEX a week / month, this surely must be traceable.

Yes you are able to create untraceable alts, and I mean totally untraceable, but you still have to at some point transfer Isk/PLEX to them.

I will presume this can be traced.

Even if they can not trace the alt, they must be able to trace the PLEX.

Are we seriously saying that CCP do not have the ability to see these transactions? That they do not have any kind of monitoring system in place that alerts them when a big transaction of somebody purchasing PLEX or transferring isk to another player happens? That they do not have the ability to trace items?

I personally find this very hard to believe.

Now if CCP do indeed have these kinds of systems in place then either they are fully aware of who is involved in RMT and is simply either turning a blind eye or are themselves involved.

Or it is not happening on the scale people believe it is.

Either way this perception is not good for CCP
Avensys
The Waterworks
#125 - 2012-01-12 08:32:10 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Now if CCP do indeed have these kinds of systems in place then either they are fully aware of who is involved in RMT and is simply either turning a blind eye or are themselves involved.

do you really think they log the history of who has transferred/taken what items from which jetcan (or secure container)?

just imagine the logfiles created by looting & salvaging one single lvl4.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#126 - 2012-01-12 08:48:09 UTC
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Prince Kobol
#127 - 2012-01-12 10:15:07 UTC
Avensys wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Now if CCP do indeed have these kinds of systems in place then either they are fully aware of who is involved in RMT and is simply either turning a blind eye or are themselves involved.

do you really think they log the history of who has transferred/taken what items from which jetcan (or secure container)?

just imagine the logfiles created by looting & salvaging one single lvl4.


I did think about this.

However that doesn't matter.

If CCP can see who is buying PLEX in bulk you are already have a start.

There will not be that many people who have the ability to buy PLEX in bulk continuously.

From there you should be able to track where that PLEX is going.

So, Eve Player purchases PLEX in bulk.. CCP receive a alert notifying them.

CCP keeps a track of what this person does with the PLEX. If the PLEX re-appears in a newly created alt and then is passed over to another player via contract for no isk and not via the market you have a good case that a RMT Transaction has occurred.

So you keep track of that player who originally purchases the PLEX in bulk. If the patterns continues then you have somebody who is involved in RMT.

Of course this is dependant on whether CCP have the ability to keep track of PLEX but I don't see why they shouldn't be able to.

After all, Every PLEX created I would hope has a unique ID which is linked to the GTC that was used to create it, which in turns allows CCP where it was purchased, who purchased it and which character used the code to active it.

Also this would not be hard to automate as the data is contained using SQL I believe
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2012-01-12 10:18:31 UTC
Cause based on assumptions.. It will end well.

In order to actually root it out, you have to directly connect the target with "RMT site" which could be difficult.
You can assume it is so. But you will not win an cause on the assumptions.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#129 - 2012-01-12 15:22:00 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Cause based on assumptions.. It will end well.

In order to actually root it out, you have to directly connect the target with "RMT site" which could be difficult.
You can assume it is so. But you will not win an cause on the assumptions.



Wrong again. RMT is not going anywhere... EVER. It's like torrent. The cause is lost! Nothing can stop this! You will all be slaves to your RMT lords!!!!

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#130 - 2012-01-12 15:45:25 UTC
met worst wrote:
Morganta wrote:
lol so now I'm a RMTer?

trollolololol

you saps are pathetic
just quit now, because things will never be the way you want them to be, so save yourself the aggravation and quit now

Hey Morgs.

To rescure myself from my "embarrassment" about this all being about Chinese Gold Farmers, I did some research on a particularly large RMT site. Identified the "errors in anonymity" and did some work.

In 20 minutes:-

I have name of the business owner, business ID, PO Box, office address, phone number etc.
If the details are correct (and I'm doing cross-checking right now) I can tell you what his house looks like and what car he drives.

I can assure you he is not Chinese. The likelihood of this being a case of mistaken identity is diminishing in that it is an unusual name and no-one else has that name in the state he resides.

This might seem creepy (although this is all on the public record) but it proves a point.

It would take CCP 20 minutes to do the same and match his details to a CC# to nail him.


The problem is we would NOT be told he was nailed so we would NOT be able to associate him to a 0.0 alliance anyway.


I gave you a picture of what a typical farming organization looks like and you read it as "its all the chinese"

seriously, get a life, nobody is impressed that you can google a registered address and make use of street view (most SV pics are 2-5 years old)

it still does nothing to support any claim that corp X is involved in Y
all your windy blather and obsessive behavior reminds me of someone who has gone off their meds

but you're not on meds... right?
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#131 - 2012-01-12 16:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Martyr Theos
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:


You won't consider anything to be "sufficient proof", so you should STFU too. What do you expect? CCP to subpoena players bank statements? Even then.... "That didn't come from RMT LOL I mow lawns on the side"


After reading your responses on this thread - and others - I have yet to see anything from you that doesnt fall into the category "unsubstantiated claims".

Hot Air - thats what you are about buddy.


If what you said was true, then where does all the isk, ships, and other game items for sale on multiple RMT sales websites on the internet come from? Do you think the volumes that are available there come from sources other than the large organizations who have control over the necessary ingame resources to produce them?? Maybe you think the casual players in HiSec somehow magically produce them? Your logic fails. Logic dictates the source of this corruption.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#132 - 2012-01-12 16:56:05 UTC
Martyr Theos wrote:


If what you said was true, then where does all the isk, ships, and other game items for sale on multiple RMT sales websites on the internet come from? Do you think the volumes that are available there come from sources other than the large organizations who have control over the necesary ingame resources to produce them?? Maybe you think the casual players in HiSec somehow magically produce them? Your logic fails. Logic dictates the source of this corruption.


Hmm, now that you mention it, this explains something.

I visit the EVE facebook site and when there I often get an Ad on the right for EVE ships. The prices are outrageous and I couldn't quite reason why.

It makes sense now. They get an order for an Archon, they don't own one. They are going to go buy it as soon as they get the order and then sell it to the dumb shmuck that didn't take 10 minutes to math off Plex prices.

LOL, even the RMT people can't be bothered to run Industrial in EVE. Lol
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#133 - 2012-01-12 17:05:11 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Well, SOME of them have to be doing it. RMT sites are full of deadspace and officer modules.
Of course, they also have lots of faction items, so highsec carebears are just as guilty.


Don't try to use logic to convince a pig of anything. It won't accomplish anything but annoying the pig.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#134 - 2012-01-12 17:15:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Martyr Theos wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Well, SOME of them have to be doing it. RMT sites are full of deadspace and officer modules.
Of course, they also have lots of faction items, so highsec carebears are just as guilty.


Don't try to use logic to convince a pig of anything. It won't accomplish anything but annoying the pig.




Amusing reply... i'll take it!



On another note, LOL at these people now trying to change the subject to "Empire people do it too" after they lost the debate regarding RMT proliferation in EVE. Weak people... truly weak. It does not change what goes on in null all of the time, if for some reason empire folks also indulge in the EULA violations.


I used to play bumping games in an ICE field. I discovered that if it hit the orca with a Hurricane traveling at 6,000 m/s, said orca would impact all of the mack's surrounding it. After I did that they all just floated in space and sat there, the mining stopped and the orca was so far out from the belt that it just sat there too. I did this day after day with the same response, until I got bored. But... that is not proof they were empire bots!! No SIR!!



That also begs the question... what do you think they needed all that ICE for? Shocked


Wait for it....


EMPIRE POS's!!
Or maybe not... Lol

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#135 - 2012-01-12 17:22:55 UTC
Forum Fighter wrote:
Let's look at this logically. Someone is selling isk to RMT Sites. RMT Sites are selling isk to players. Who in the game would have so much isk that it would be tempting, worthwhile, profitable, possible, plausible or irresistable? Who has that much isk? Chribba/ Entity, a few successful market guys, Somer.blink, EOH, or tech moon farmers. Who has the most tech moons? Who just launched a major campaign to grab even more tech moons?

You can also tell the botters when you look at Dotlan for # of npc's killed in the last 24 hours. Some systems have like 5-6,000 npc's killed every 24 hours. That's an awful lot of ratting 24/7. And who controls/ safeguards those systems?


Again, stop trying to use logic to convince the pigs.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#136 - 2012-01-12 17:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Martyr Theos wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Well, SOME of them have to be doing it. RMT sites are full of deadspace and officer modules.
Of course, they also have lots of faction items, so highsec carebears are just as guilty.


Don't try to use logic to convince a pig of anything. It won't accomplish anything but annoying the pig.




Amusing reply... i'll take it!



On another note, LOL at these people now trying to change the subject to "Empire people do it too" after they lost the debate regarding RMT proliferation in EVE. Weak people... truly weak. It does not change what goes on in null all of the time, if for some reason empire folks also indulge in the EULA violations.


I used to play bumping games in an ICE field. I discovered that if it hit the orca with a Hurricane traveling at 6,000 m/s, said orca would impact all of the mack's surrounding it. After I did that they all just floated in space and sat there, the mining stopped and the orca was so far out from the belt that it just sat there. But... that is not proof they were empire bots!! No SIR!!


Speaking of and I don't accuse them because I think they are they are the nesting ground as much as EVE but to the point, Goonswarm are a null sec alliance but tell that to people in Gallente, high sec ice belts.

RMT is like a virus. If you want to try and cut it out with a knife, feel free. I give you a week to live. Same for EVE. They can't bann away RMT. They need to immunize EVE. It won't happen over night.

- Logic to pursuade pigs: RMT might run end game in EVE. Trolls rule the forums in EVE but I'm still here be-ach. Lol
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#137 - 2012-01-12 17:28:16 UTC
met worst wrote:
Morganta wrote:
met worst wrote:
It took 30 seconds with Google to find many sites selling BPO's, ships, ISK etc. for RM

Someone has the ingame ISK to buy this stuff and is then selling for money. How did they get that much ISK. Botting? Tech moons? Some pretty serious isk has been "harvested" to supply these sites.

Either way, RMT does exist AND there is AMPLE PROOF of it.

What's the OP? An ostrich?


and apparently you are blind

did anyone here dispute the fact that RMT happens daily?
did the OP dispute it?

no, the point is just because it happens is a **** poor excuse to claim that entire alliances support and engage in it as a whole or at the executive level

its like saying all people of a certain race are criminals because some of them are actually criminals
and if you applied that logic you would find that every race on the planet are a pack of criminals

get it now?

And my point asks WHERE that much ISK comes from? If it's NOT supported and endorsed by the large alliances (read 0.0) then where's the ISK - in the trillions - coming from?

No high-seccer can make that much ISK to support a trading RMT site.


QFT !!
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#138 - 2012-01-12 17:29:10 UTC
Ocih wrote:


RMT is like a virus. If you want to try and cut it out with a knife, feel free. I give you a week to live. Same for EVE. They can't bann away RMT. They need to immunize EVE. It won't happen over night.



Digital mafia is the best mafia? Are they going to like... Suicide gank the ships I never undock? Or like... find what country I live in and come to my house?


WTF are you talking about? LOL

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#139 - 2012-01-12 17:32:31 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Martyr Theos wrote:


If what you said was true, then where does all the isk, ships, and other game items for sale on multiple RMT sales websites on the internet come from? Do you think the volumes that are available there come from sources other than the large organizations who have control over the necesary ingame resources to produce them?? Maybe you think the casual players in HiSec somehow magically produce them? Your logic fails. Logic dictates the source of this corruption.


Hmm, now that you mention it, this explains something.

I visit the EVE facebook site and when there I often get an Ad on the right for EVE ships. The prices are outrageous and I couldn't quite reason why.

It makes sense now. They get an order for an Archon, they don't own one. They are going to go buy it as soon as they get the order and then sell it to the dumb shmuck that didn't take 10 minutes to math off Plex prices.

LOL, even the RMT people can't be bothered to run Industrial in EVE. Lol


FB ads are not controllable and are displayed due to your reported interests on FB
but yeah, nobody ever said these guys are smart
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#140 - 2012-01-12 17:33:05 UTC
met worst wrote:
It would take CCP 20 minutes to do the same and match his details to a CC# to nail him.




I'm sorry, what?


Just because you like playing internet detective (don't get me wrong, it's fun!) are you seriously suggesting CCP should actively track people down to their real life places of work/residence, matching and tracing CC numbers, spying on what cars they own through Google Earth and god knows what else, just because they choose to sell some internet pixels?

Regardless of what the EULA says, RMTers commit no RL crime. I await someone to give a link stating the the opposite is true... Sure, CCP might not like RMT, but please don't forget that they don't have the power or indeed the mandate (from anyone) to do **** like this.


Nice post though! :)

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log