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[Citadels Release] Capital Ship changes reaching Singularity!

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Dawn'of'the'DeAd
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#61 - 2016-03-19 13:29:37 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Dawn'of'the'DeAd wrote:
is singularity going to be put back online yet orr....



... it has been I'm on now and have been on for 3-4hrs


well it says on the launcher unknown and wont allow me to log on it gives me a log in error message for all characters Cry
Dawn'of'the'DeAd
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2016-03-19 13:30:58 UTC
Dawn'of'the'DeAd wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Dawn'of'the'DeAd wrote:
is singularity going to be put back online yet orr....



... it has been I'm on now and have been on for 3-4hrs


well it says on the launcher unknown and wont allow me to log on it gives me a log in error message for all characters Cry

http://prntscr.com/ah7vwq
Dawn'of'the'DeAd
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2016-03-19 13:51:13 UTC
Dawn'of'the'DeAd wrote:
Dawn'of'the'DeAd wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Dawn'of'the'DeAd wrote:
is singularity going to be put back online yet orr....



... it has been I'm on now and have been on for 3-4hrs


well it says on the launcher unknown and wont allow me to log on it gives me a log in error message for all characters Cry

http://prntscr.com/ah7vwq


this is really annnoying now i have re installed the eve client and tried and it is STILL giving me that error message
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#64 - 2016-03-19 13:55:21 UTC
Hey all, just to let you know there are currently some login issue with Singularity that we are investigating. Thanks for your patience while we resolve these problems, I'll update this thread once we know more

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2016-03-19 14:00:08 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Marranar Amatin wrote:
If carriers are supposed to be still useable for ratting, then we need one of the following

1. Much more ehp on fighters.
2. Much lower costs on fighters
3. An even greater damage increase on fighters
4. A reliable way to keep aggro off fighters.


Its not possible to test them vs npc right know, but looking at their stats and shooting them with an alt, shows that fighters die very quickly.

With the current mechanic I would assume that the only way to keep all fighters alive, is to immediately call them back if one is attacked. Which is quite difficult since they die so fast and there is no clear warning when one is attacked. Also this would be a huge dps loss since this means to call back the whole squadron.

And loosing a few fighters per anomaly makes the whole thing pointless if the anomalie is only worth ~30 mil while each fighter already costs 3 mil.

If they are supposed to be used like ammo, meaning you are supposed to loose and replace them all the time (which seems to be the purpose, consindering the size of the fighter bay, their ehp and the "reloading" mechanic), then either the costs needs to be also on the level of ammo, so the fighter need to be much cheaper, or they need to be much stronger, to make up for the loss by being able to clear anos faster.
The latter would probably mean they are completely overpowered in pvp.
Lets say you loose only 5 fighter per ano, with the current costs (about 3 mil from the blueprint) thats about half the bounty of a heaven, so you need to be able to do twice as many heavens as before, and since warping also costs time, the kill speed (and thus the damage) needs to be increased by about a factor of 2.5. This is probably too much damage for pvp.

Otherwise its not possible to use them as ammo so we need a way to keep them alive. Either much more ehp or a way to keep aggro off them. If the ehp increase is only so much that we can call them back in time, then we still need a significant damage increase, to make up for the 33% damage loss while recalling.


My prefered solution would be to make them much cheaper. This has the advantages of being easier to balance, since they dont get actually stronger, it makes the ratting more active since you have to send out new fighters, and creates a new good with constant demand for industrialists.


The fighters do not need added damage and they do not need more ehp they ate on a good place right now for pvp if that means they may be weaker in PVE so be it


He has a point (even if accidental) about lifespan, cost, volume and overall practicality. Especially when we consider their hilarious crappy speeds and how easy they will be to pop.

And I'm meaning just from a PvP perspective, not really thinking about anoms given there are new NPC capitals coming, presumably as recompense for the loss of afk ratting.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#66 - 2016-03-19 14:14:32 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Marranar Amatin wrote:
If carriers are supposed to be still useable for ratting, then we need one of the following

1. Much more ehp on fighters.
2. Much lower costs on fighters
3. An even greater damage increase on fighters
4. A reliable way to keep aggro off fighters.


Its not possible to test them vs npc right know, but looking at their stats and shooting them with an alt, shows that fighters die very quickly.

With the current mechanic I would assume that the only way to keep all fighters alive, is to immediately call them back if one is attacked. Which is quite difficult since they die so fast and there is no clear warning when one is attacked. Also this would be a huge dps loss since this means to call back the whole squadron.

And loosing a few fighters per anomaly makes the whole thing pointless if the anomalie is only worth ~30 mil while each fighter already costs 3 mil.

If they are supposed to be used like ammo, meaning you are supposed to loose and replace them all the time (which seems to be the purpose, consindering the size of the fighter bay, their ehp and the "reloading" mechanic), then either the costs needs to be also on the level of ammo, so the fighter need to be much cheaper, or they need to be much stronger, to make up for the loss by being able to clear anos faster.
The latter would probably mean they are completely overpowered in pvp.
Lets say you loose only 5 fighter per ano, with the current costs (about 3 mil from the blueprint) thats about half the bounty of a heaven, so you need to be able to do twice as many heavens as before, and since warping also costs time, the kill speed (and thus the damage) needs to be increased by about a factor of 2.5. This is probably too much damage for pvp.

Otherwise its not possible to use them as ammo so we need a way to keep them alive. Either much more ehp or a way to keep aggro off them. If the ehp increase is only so much that we can call them back in time, then we still need a significant damage increase, to make up for the 33% damage loss while recalling.


My prefered solution would be to make them much cheaper. This has the advantages of being easier to balance, since they dont get actually stronger, it makes the ratting more active since you have to send out new fighters, and creates a new good with constant demand for industrialists.


The fighters do not need added damage and they do not need more ehp they ate on a good place right now for pvp if that means they may be weaker in PVE so be it


He has a point (even if accidental) about lifespan, cost, volume and overall practicality. Especially when we consider their hilarious crappy speeds and how easy they will be to pop.

And I'm meaning just from a PvP perspective, not really thinking about anoms given there are new NPC capitals coming, presumably as recompense for the loss of afk ratting.


The cost is can understand yes but their tank would worry me it seems to be at a good level so long as they are not getting sniped

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#67 - 2016-03-19 14:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
The Ewar fighters seem rather lack luster consisting you need to drop 1/3 of your dps in a carrier to use them. The warp disruptor is not only weak but pointless unless your ate flying without a proper support fleet the others can probably be fixed by tweaking numbers but I can't see many carrier pilots giving up so much dps for a point

EDIT

Also is it intended that you can have fewer flights of anti fighters than all other types they are 12km a flight the rest are 9km-10km

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#68 - 2016-03-19 14:37:48 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
how do i tell fighters where to go?


You need a target lock and the second they leave the launch bay, they show a gun and or prop mod icon which you can click, depending on the fighters.

Click the lower gun icon and they are on their merry way.


One thing, the anti-capital fighters seem a tad weak and the subcapital fighters are too strong and the anti fighter fighters seem okay-ish.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Lugh Crow-Slave
#69 - 2016-03-19 15:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
elitatwo wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
how do i tell fighters where to go?


You need a target lock and the second they leave the launch bay, they show a gun and or prop mod icon which you can click, depending on the fighters.

Click the lower gun icon and they are on their merry way.


One thing, the anti-capital fighters seem a tad weak and the subcapital fighters are too strong and the anti fighter fighters seem okay-ish.



I'm not talking about telling them to engage in mean get the movement UI up in can only get it when using torpedo bombers mjd abulity


And the sub cap fighters are not to strong considering they are only scary of you have 3 full flights and they are very easy to kill off
EDIT
Also remember these fighters can be missile disputed and permanently jammed by a frigate so they are far from powerful


Unless you are talking about the LR heavies in that case I agree

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Exarcheia
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2016-03-19 16:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Exarcheia
So, far here are my impressions regarding damage/application:

The damage of Anti-Capital Heavy Fighters' special attack against capitals is rather ludicrous, we are talking 180k+ Damage per squadron from a Wyvern with non-maxed skills to a triaged Minokawa fitted with two(running) Adaptive Invulns + Damage Control: https://i.imgur.com/ONfv70Z.png (All damage shown is with 3x T2 DDA, 2x T1 Fighter Support Units, Fighters/Heavy Fighters IV, Carrier IV Wyvern, no Support/Light Fighter skills against a Caldari Force Auxiliary IV Minokawa).

Anti-Fighter Fighters seem to do a lot of damage, it takes merely a few volleys (I'd say three-ish) to take out a full flight of normal Light Fighters (tested on a squadron of Einherjar), which means that it will be basically impossible to safeguard one's fighters once they are out of direct scoop range while being attacked by Interceptor Fighters.

The Long-Range Heavy Fighters track too well. They consistently hit a moving Broadsword or Onyx (1 Meta-4 Target Painter, 1 squadron of webbing fighters applied, so moving ~150m/s) for 2.6k+ every 9 seconds, and that's for a single squad. I tested Gugnirs (Minmatar), and they have Artillery, yet they seem to track just fine at ~5km against a cruiser. This probably needs adjustment.
Rob Kaichin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2016-03-19 16:34:10 UTC
I found an entirely novel bug: the evasive manoeuvres ability, when activated on a squadron under attack, activates once, 'pseudo-cools down', creates a whole new icon for a cooling down evaisive manoeuvres, and continues to cycle!

I managed to get 7 stacked, cooling down evasive manoeuvres icons before the UI reset itself. It seemed to happen every time a fighter died.

It's awesome :D
Rob Kaichin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2016-03-19 16:36:56 UTC
It's probably worth breaking 'Light Fighters' into Light Fighters and Light Bombers as classes, I think. Or differentiating them by name, at least.

I spent ages wondering how a Satyr was overpowered when it did ~160 dps to a Capital!
Dawn'of'the'DeAd
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2016-03-19 17:16:59 UTC
http://prntscr.com/ahal11 it comes up with this error anyone know why
Dawn'of'the'DeAd
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#74 - 2016-03-19 17:17:47 UTC
Dawn'of'the'DeAd wrote:
http://prntscr.com/ahal11 it comes up with this error anyone know why

and u press log in and it does nothing

Cellita Nardieu
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2016-03-19 18:01:42 UTC
After some issues I finally logged in on sisi but market is currently offline.
Any idea of when it will be back ?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#76 - 2016-03-19 18:08:10 UTC
Got to say I love the carrier on carrier play toy struck a nice spot with the anti fighters they require the carriers to fight first before they get invoked with the main fight and the fcs needs to decide if he wants to assist the carrier or not.


BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rob Kaichin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2016-03-19 20:24:49 UTC
SiSi appears to be down, when will it be up again?

I need to shoot subcaps with Fighters, it's like all the Trailers have promised!
Mindi Price
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#78 - 2016-03-19 21:28:11 UTC
After final release - carrier lose their abilities to lunch usuall drones (like bouncer) ?
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2016-03-19 23:14:26 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

The cost is can understand yes but their tank would worry me it seems to be at a good level so long as they are not getting sniped



Yeah I know, I need to do some testing tomorrow but the posted numbers suggest they're going to be far too easy to defang.

It's their (lack of) speed, mainly, and the inability to launch replacements without pulling an entire unit.

1km/s (maybe 1.3) is just so awful. A minute and a half just to recall from 100km is insane. I mean people think the RLML reload is bad... sure they have MWD but if they don't save that for getting on targets, even battleships will outrun them.
Rob Kaichin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2016-03-19 23:20:52 UTC
It's worth raising the question: do drone speed mods work on them?

Otherwise, think of it this way: you keep your **slow** anti-fighter fighters with you (since they only get a 190% speed buff with evasive manoeuvres), whilst using your offensive light fighters (light bombers) (fast[ish]) to hunt enemy subs. If you see enemy anti-fighter fighters you recall and trigger the MWD.

Or at least that's how it might work in a carrier vs carrier thing. I really have no idea how half of this stuff's going to work.