Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

You haven't given me enough data for me to answer that.

But a hypothetical from a person that is not experienced with trade is more likely to resemble a real players "first attempt" at something. That's informative, but generally players go on to refine their approach.

My perspective is that of a veteran trader. I would expect a large buy order at a non-competitive price that is placed in a station with no pre-existing traffic to take a long time to fill. I expect that your hypothetical person would also discover this. I wonder what he would do next?

Given that broker fees are the incentive for a person to install and maintain a market service module, it's likely they are going to set it to a non-zero value. We can probably assume that total game-wide broker fees are going to go up substantially. The impact of that on a players order placing behavior is going to be interesting. I'd expect it to discourage the placement of orders that don't fill.

I'd like to see that confirmed.

I certainly wouldn't look kindly on a market purge or a retroactive tax bill on patch day.

I'd expect transaction tax to be retro-active because it's charged at sale and I doubt CCP is going to go to the effort of flagging all the pre-patch orders for a tax exemption. So that would mean that some pre-existing orders that were profitable will become unprofitable at the point of patching.

So if you are in a 0% broker fee Citadel 1 jump from Jita placing 1 jump ranged buy orders you can circumvent the broker fees while continuing to trade at your preferred NPC venue?

Erm... ok. I can afford a L+ Citadel to facilitate my Jita trading, but what about those that cant?

Probably. But you would have to pay the NPC broker fee if you wanted to resell it in the station, or pick it up and haul it to your own station to sell. Seems rather inconvenient to do, if the alternative is buying and selling from the same Citadel.

In the case I'm describing, you would place your buy orders in the Citadel and place your sell orders at Jita 4-4. The majority of your stock would land directly in Jita 4-4 and what little doesn't can be moved by a combination of asset safety and courier contracts.

If you choose Niyabainen for the sake of argument, your 1 jump range will only include Jita, New Caldari and Perimeter.

It's not that inconvenient for a 5% advantage over anyone who doesn't do the same. I'm not sure how useful comparing that to buying and selling in the same Citadel is, because Jita population isn't something that you can just summon to the doorstep of your citadel on a whim.

You aren't posing questions, you're basically making a wailing noise.

So wait, you think nobody hauls their own stuff? Go ahead and scan a whole bunch of hauling ships. Anything that doesn't contain a plastic wrap isn't hauling on contract. I think you'll be surprised how many there are.

We simply disagree on it being the most fundamental part, and as of yet you've given me no reason the think you have a clue what you are talking about. Like many players it seems like you've heard about game mechanics by rough description and are guessing. Sure, lack of contacts will make the market harder to seed, but it's definitely not even close to the only thing that matters. Bear in mind you can still contract to the nearest station (probably in system) then haul yourself that last bit.

Depends on the benefits, if the rent was significantly reduced, I was able to work around the lack of access and the access would be improved going forwards, then yes, probably.

Then as always they will fall behind and those of us adapting will roll around in isk laughing.

"PS; Try responding to a post without the multi quoting - That way others can respond in kind without 1st having to delete 90% of the drivel you write."
I prefer tackling the points one at a time especially when I'm dealing with, should we say, people with reduced capability to put it politely. If dealing with someone quoting part of a post confuses you it's no wonder you can't figure out the market.

Those look like perfectly sensible criteria.

Why were broker fees not a criteria in your selection?

Indeed. It's something I've depended on for some of my trading strategies. But in the past the gap between the haves and the have-nots wasn't nearly as big as is proposed, I'm wondering how that will impact who can access various types of trading gameplay.

Have you got a quote from CCP on that? Because I think this is one of many areas where the details are somewhat thin on the ground.

I'd also want to know what happens when the Citadel you have your orders hosted in is un-anchored, destroyed or has it's market service removed. Can I put up a Citadel, host up all my orders and then un-anchor my Citadel with the orders still persisting or will the orders get cancelled?

So a station owner can take your broker fees, purge your orders and keep the ISK?

What about corp orders that usually go to deliveries instead of your personal hanger?


So is this a temporary thing, like the lack of contracts support, or a permanent thing?

Brokers fees are pretty much irrelevant at their current level even without standings, especially when seeding a market outside of mainland highsec, but standings themselves can be gathered for any corporation/faction so there was no real difference between them. Most stations were Gallente and I had Gellente standing. I went with a Quafe station in the end just because Quafe is cool.

I imagine it will be restrictive, but I see that as a good thing. Trading is very low risk, very high reward and easy to do. I welcome any changes which add risk or cost to it. I'd like to see the zero fee for asset recovery to stations in system removed if the citadel is reinforced or destroyed too, because as it stands people who aren't the owner don't need to worry about losing a percentages of their stored assets. It would be good for that to change so they have a vested interest without. It should still be a zero fee if the citadel is untouched to stop owners trolling other players.

Yup, see what I was saying about added risk? It wouldn't make sense for a citadel owner to do really though as they've already made some isk and stand to make more by leaving it up. It would only make sense if the fees made less than the fuel and they had no other use for it, in which case it's not a substantial loss to the trader.