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Evelopedia
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#1 - 2016-03-05 07:41:32 UTC
Hello, is this thing on? Greetings CSM, I'm Lulu Lunette, CEO of Savage Moon Society.

Decided to do a bit of investigating the other day since evelopedia is no longer.

I wondered if CCP consulted with either Brave or Eve University before just dumping the task of keeping an official wiki and how-to to the generous third party community in our community.

I don't really know anyone from Brave, so I ended up in Eve Universities Diplomat channel and I asked them if CCP had even checked with them first and they said "no." I admit I was venting my frustration a bit in the chat, and they did direct me to tell my CSM about my concerns so this is why I'm here. They also reminded me that it was okay because they are a charitable organization and have been around for twelve years. Hey! That's great and all ...

BUT

Does anyone else think that maybe open source is suddenly being taken for granted? I'm not really the best for words on this topic because I didn't realize how much I used Evelopedia until it was gone. Literally from day one I had Evelopedia open. I would not be here still without that site. Suddenly the joke about just dumping it to the free labor that is our playerbase is a reality.

Shutting Evelopedia down was a bad move.

If it was up to me, like as a head honcho of Eve University or Brave Newbies, I'd make a similar sudden shift in policy and close UniWiki/Brave Wiki to only students, faculty and donors. Maybe their diplomats can coordinate and do it together.

I would like to ask if there is a solid date for an Evelopedia replacement? There was mention that there was a future site for things like Chronicles and lore stuff.

@lunettelulu7
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#2 - 2016-03-11 17:25:40 UTC
When are these forums going away? Should i have put this on reddit instead?

I love exploring New Eden. Just running the sites is not enough. I take loads of videos and screenshots because this game is beautiful. So many in fact, I could make a really neat and elaborate guide.

I imagined my own long term endgame being an accredited editor of Evelopedia. A neutral site that anyone in the player base can edit. I based lots of my own creative crap on what I read on Evelopedia. Was the only place for lore, if I wanted history on the Ni-Kunni, relations between Vherokior and Thukker tribes, etc.

I've only been here 11 months, so I lack an authority that someone who's been here since beta would have as far as experience. Not to mention, I don't do this coding thing for a living. What would take someone in the field to do a simple 5 minute HTML edit would take me an hour.

My contributions to Evelopedia were very small. I made some grammatical fixes and I made a page for my own characters backstory.. which honestly was just a sort of 'classroom' if you wanna call it that. Using the different tools and templates to make a page from scratch. BECAUSE as we all know, evelopedia was brutally out of date.

Losing this lore fluff took lots of this game's romance out for me. Not gonna quit over evelopedia but there's no reason to remove it just like there was apparently no reason to keep it.

Whatever.

@lunettelulu7
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-03-16 21:58:42 UTC
Why are you asking whether the forums are going away?

Also, I don't see a CSM response here. Do CSM folks often come to these threads? (It'd be helpful to have a CSM tag when one responds.)

If lore is now being dumped, much of the world-building is also gone. But whether it's the wiki or the watch-list, I don't know that any of the CSM candidates have spoken much, and even if they do, will CCP care at all?
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#4 - 2016-03-17 01:40:22 UTC
Joia Crenca wrote:
Why are you asking whether the forums are going away?

Also, I don't see a CSM response here. Do CSM folks often come to these threads? (It'd be helpful to have a CSM tag when one responds.)

If lore is now being dumped, much of the world-building is also gone. But whether it's the wiki or the watch-list, I don't know that any of the CSM candidates have spoken much, and even if they do, will CCP care at all?


Figured these forums aren't the best place anymore since there's better third party sites out there. Could just evelopedia them.. Was being snarky

@lunettelulu7
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#5 - 2016-03-17 18:48:05 UTC
Joia Crenca wrote:
Also, I don't see a CSM response here. Do CSM folks often come to these threads? (It'd be helpful to have a CSM tag when one responds.)

Such a tag already exists. Members of the CSM do check these forums, but CCP's response on the Evelopedia thing has been pretty final. As well, one of the current CSMs already has the dump hosted on his own website.

Quote:
Not gonna quit over evelopedia but there's no reason to remove it just like there was apparently no reason to keep it.

By your own admittance, you're not much of a programming wizard. Take some time to go around looking at how websites actually run in the background and the complexity of managing multiple sites, then come back and complain about not nuking something that costs a decent amount of time to maintain with minimal/negligible use.

I'll go ahead and throw this out there: I've been playing this game since long before Evelopedia was introduced, and I used it very, very rarely. A bunch of better, more informative, free, open-access sites about EVE lore and anomaly information are available with a simple google search. If CCP is focusing their efforts on a better, easier to maintain lore-focused site instead of maintaining an incredibly out-dated, rarely used, and poorly updated wiki, I don't see a problem with that at all.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-03-17 23:31:07 UTC
"If CCP is focusing their efforts on a better, easier to maintain lore-focused site instead of maintaining an incredibly out-dated, rarely used, and poorly updated wiki,"

Lykouleon, are they actually doing this? I figured they were dropping lore to 3rd parties altogether and washing their hands of players who enjoy world-building.
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-03-17 23:33:27 UTC
"Such a tag already exists." The CSM members do have a tag, but visible only once you're in the thread, unlike the CCP tag which is visible in the forum listing. I should have been more specific.
Heiluri
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-03-18 09:27:43 UTC
Joia Crenca wrote:
"If CCP is focusing their efforts on a better, easier to maintain lore-focused site instead of maintaining an incredibly out-dated, rarely used, and poorly updated wiki,"

Lykouleon, are they actually doing this? I figured they were dropping lore to 3rd parties altogether and washing their hands of players who enjoy world-building.


Directly quoted from the official CCP statement about the matter:
"The EVElopedia also contains a significant amount of prime fiction and official backstory reference material that has been worked on by both CCP, and our fantastic ISD Mercury division. This will be relocated to a new home over the course of the next couple of months so that all players have read access to it, and ISD Mercury can continue to contribute to developing prime fiction and backstory for the EVE Universe. "
Source: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/evelopedia-shutdown-2016-02-29-09-00/
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#9 - 2016-03-18 15:52:01 UTC
It would have been neat if they cancelled evelopedia the day the new lore thing came out then.

tbh I'm over it.. already working on uniwiki....

@lunettelulu7
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-03-18 17:46:48 UTC
Heiluri wrote:
Joia Crenca wrote:
"If CCP is focusing their efforts on a better, easier to maintain lore-focused site instead of maintaining an incredibly out-dated, rarely used, and poorly updated wiki,"

Lykouleon, are they actually doing this? I figured they were dropping lore to 3rd parties altogether and washing their hands of players who enjoy world-building.


Directly quoted from the official CCP statement about the matter:
"The EVElopedia also contains a significant amount of prime fiction and official backstory reference material that has been worked on by both CCP, and our fantastic ISD Mercury division. This will be relocated to a new home over the course of the next couple of months so that all players have read access to it, and ISD Mercury can continue to contribute to developing prime fiction and backstory for the EVE Universe. "
Source: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/evelopedia-shutdown-2016-02-29-09-00/



That's somewhat better then. Thanks for that heads-up!
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#11 - 2016-03-22 20:14:35 UTC
Lulu Lunette wrote:
When are these forums going away? Should i have put this on reddit instead?




Reddit and other third party sites (as helpful as EVE Uni's wiki may be) are, in a way, a signal of CCP's disconnect from it's own forums and products (read: EVElopedia). It absolutely sickens me that CCP prefers to give priority to Reddit when posting game information, as opposed to it's own forums.


If someone 'accidentally' pulls the plug on Reddit and forces CCP to come back to their own damn forum to relay information to the playerbase, I wouldn't shed any particular tears...

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-05-14 00:23:05 UTC
Hmmm.... so what are the options now? World building seems to require a good lore base, and if world building has been abandoned, that doesn't speak well for the future of the game.