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Dev blog: The second CSM X summit - meeting minutes included

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Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#21 - 2016-02-28 07:59:19 UTC
Read this wall of text - enjoyed parts didn't like other parts

Suggestions for CCP -
- add a post or something to the web site that list what team handles what - this is good for both players and CSM - as it seems a lot of the report was "that is a different team"
- I know you all have a plan for New Eden, but could we see a survey that list the current projects you all are working on and let the players voice what they fill as a whole needs priority. And figure out a reward to motivate more than just the forum trolls to come vote.

Some of the post talking about how you all have plans for this or that and then realize you don't know if you like what you are doing - please, for lack better description, get your heads out of your arse.
- We have asked for ORE Command ships in the destroyer size for a long time -
- We miners who live in Null have wondered for a long time at what changes will take place for the Rorq and still we have no solid plans.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Oxide Ammar
#22 - 2016-02-28 11:14:43 UTC
Quote:
Jayne asked how CCP thought the drifter incursions were going. CCP Affinity said they're not going as well as CCP wanted. One of the problems they see is that players are hesitant to tackle them due to the extreme difficulties.


This sums up CCP vision regarding PVE, no perspective..no vision of what can be introduced as new blood to PVE. A year old PVE player can told you before wasting development hours on how drifters incursion is fail introduction to PVE but w/e floats your boat CCP.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#23 - 2016-02-28 11:25:27 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I've browsed the minutes based on section headlines and Team names (why don't they have a more descriptive name? Do we really need to know and remember that "Team size matters = UI?"), and apparently there was no specific/dedicated discussion of PvE?


I guess the teams have multiple tasks. Also doesn't help to switch your team name after every task, so nobody knows who is in which team.

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

It's a bit disappointing. All I've read was about Drifter incursions not working as expected... Not expected by CCP; since they're not-working exactly as anyone with, say, 7 years of experience in PvE, would expect them to "unwork".


I really hope they get drifter incursions to work and make it something players have to work hard for to get rid off.
The current problem with PvE is that player figure out how to win and then repeat it until it gets boring.
I remember how cool it was to rescue my first damsel. The first thing I did when I got the Damsel bodyguard was flying to the sun, throwing him out of the airlock and alpha the container with a 1400mm Howitzer

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Looks like some issues just will never be tackled. Even CCP Denebola kinda misfired; why does she focus on "things that work" rather than adress "things that horribly don't work"?


For marketing it is easier to promote things that work Twisted
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#24 - 2016-02-28 11:39:39 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Idea for dreads:

- Change capital gun ammo to have a small radius AoE at the point of impact with the target. Not to do more damage to the target, but rounds of that size caliber should be AoE'ish on impact.

- And the reason why: Allow dread pilots to form a chain / coordinate fire / sync their weapons and achieve bombardment of a volume of space (AoE) - basically give them a mini-superweapon if multiple dreads enter this coordinated mode.



I like this idea. But that ability should have some drawbacks, otherwise you have permadeath-zones on gates.
Maybe make a new gun instead of just having a new ammo. Capital gun, very high rate of fire, uses large amounts of smaller ammo (Large), takes very long to reload. Since you can't refit with combat timer (and have the wrong ammo with you anyway), this prevents caps from just switching to a different ammo type when they realise that the subcaps are killing them.
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#25 - 2016-02-28 18:31:37 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Actually, Randomization is a good thing as there is a possibility of people getting more votes if they are higher in the alphabet as lazy folks just click the first thing they see.

m


So I read some of the minutes, it's a nice large chunk to be divided over the weekend Cool

But have you had the opportunity Mike, to ask CCP Games to invest into bigger text boxes

and perhaps have even voice-overs for the newbro's that are coming to the game in 2016.

Regards, a Freelancer

ps: here is a picture of a Squirrel

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#26 - 2016-02-29 07:59:47 UTC
Shalmon Aliatus wrote:
(...)
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Looks like some issues just will never be tackled. Even CCP Denebola kinda misfired; why does she focus on "things that work" rather than adress "things that horribly don't work"?


For marketing it is easier to promote things that work Twisted


For expanding your business it is easier to keep customers willing to leave than turn non-customers into potential customers. Quitting customers can be divided into wrong, offended and confused. The wrong are impossible to keep, but offended and confused can be kept easier than just turning non-customers into customers.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2016-02-29 15:22:43 UTC
Wormhole coverage is again in a sorry state :(

As a corpmate put very well... CSM members are out of touch when it comes to WH's

No Worries
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#28 - 2016-03-01 19:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Atum
Putting the entirety of the security portion of the summit under NDA isn't really doing anybody a favor. Sure, it's best not to openly discuss specific means and methods, but there's nothing wrong with letting us know that the implementation of a new tool improved detection of mining bots by n percentage points and ratting bots by x points, or something the CSM suggested during the last time summit reduced the false positive rate of suspected ISK mules by r points. It's also interesting to see how much dirty ISK is being removed from the economy, or if certain ships/items tend to show up repeatedly.


PS... I miss CCP Sreegs' security chart porn
Suede
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2016-03-08 11:48:48 UTC
marly cortez wrote:
Freelancer117 wrote:
Woot, we are no doubt going to see more CCP Guard / Logibro dev blogs Cool



Would prefer to see CCP taking less time with putting out Blogs and more time listening to what Players actually wanted from them tbh, Impression you get currently is 'Fozzies on a High and he just ain't listening to anyone'. Hope that does not get lost in translation...Twisted


Shame that CCP do not even reply to there own dev blogs as much as they should. and SP buying/ SP injectors
was one of the worse ideas ever for CCP just to make money.

Just a shame and let down that CSM did not even bring it up more with CCP in regards to the SP injectors.

Name change and Sex change allowance License extension for 5 days, 2500 Aurum
Jenshae Chiroptera
#30 - 2016-03-10 03:16:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Quote:
Chance talked about how his group instituted a rule where people were not allowed to talk about injectors due to some people getting upset over others talking about having them so much.

CCP stated that they're carefully watching to see what the longer term effects of skill trading are.
In other words, waiting for the players to calm down and watch the cash roll in.

Looks like CSM really grilled team Size Matters about how they will fix Fozzie SOV so it isn't mining structures and how they will curb power creep so that Tech 3 is about utility and skill rather than power.
No playing into AUR nonsense or figuring out how to sell pre-made alts or anything like that, oh, no sir-e.

What car is EVE? It is this.
What do people know EVE by? The learning cliff.

EVE was a challenging game. Generally, it used to require some research, brains or social skills.
Now it is just a gentle hill with lots of ways to pay for rides to the top where the establish groups wait to beat the snot out of you.

P.S. Team Psycho Sisters, I still want colour in the Neocom; so that I can glance over and know what I am going to click in an instant.
... and it would be really, really cool if the overview and text input would stop locking up on Linux (unsupported, I know)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#31 - 2016-03-14 15:35:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Atum
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
EVE was a challenging game. Generally, it used to require some research, brains or social skills. Now it is just a gentle hill with lots of ways to pay for rides to the top where the establish groups wait to beat the snot out of you.

I don't personally see a problem with this... In the "old regime," you'd be crucified, impaled, hung, shoved off a ledge, or plowed over with a bulldozer the moment you exited the character creator and entered space. In the "new regime," people who try to buy their way to the top will still be crucified, impaled, hung, shoved off a ledge, or plowed over with a bulldozer. The folks who don't buy their way, however, at least have a fighting chance to learn the ropes as they climb that hill without the need for hammers and pitons, and may actually stick around long enough to shoot the USD/EUR/ISK rich and knowledge poor "pay to win" people in the face, rob their freeze-dried corpses, and do happy dances looting their purple modules Twisted
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#32 - 2016-03-16 16:30:33 UTC
It's really disappointing to see that no one on csm even mentions the promises ccp made for faction war back in 2013. These include timer rollbacks and better intel tools. These were ideas that players brought up to devs and the devs promised to deliver but never did. After the last summit I and a few others raised this issue with csm, asking that they at least find out what happened.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6082412#post6082412

But frankly it is like talking to a wall. Lots of talk in the low sec minutes about faction war but nothing about what the players asked for, and ccp promised back in 2013.

If anyone asks why players stopped caring about csm, just direct them here as an example of csm derailing players requests.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#33 - 2016-03-17 21:01:02 UTC
That was a fair chunk of reading.

It's interesting to see that human nature is the same about everywhere.

I don't envy the CSM's for having to walk the tightrope between the player base and the development company. Having walked that same tightrope in the same role for a different multi-player game, yeah, it's a bear.

It's great that CCP is trying to save the CSM project. I think that shows they feel there is some positive need for something like the CSM. What I was seeing by reading between the lines is that CCP doesn't have a cross team Project Manager/Core Game Superintendent, or whatever you want to call the person responsible for keeping the game and all the various projects in focus. Maybe that's supposed to be CCP Seagull, but with all those different threads, teams, and projects, it read like too much of "That's another teams job" or "We don't know about that, another team would", etc. There should have been someone that could at least answer a little about just about every direction, topic and nuance. That person is the glue that holds all the teams, and essentially the game, together. Another really hard job. I wasn't reading evidence of the existence of such a person. It would explain why some things feel disjointed in how they are released and why the game can have a splintered nature.

However, none of that means that the CSM or CCP aren't doing their jobs representing the player base. They seem to be trying their best to do their jobs. What is clear is that a monthly 'meeting' is just a re-focusing plan/forum. The ideas and frustrations of the player base probably need to be forwarded to CCP by the CSM on a weekly basis, boiled down at the meeting, then maybe an on-going side (read: secured) CSM forum with the Devs can handle these hot topics on a daily basis so decisions don't get made in a vacuum. Then the CSM's can report back to us in their public forum on the topics brought up here and the decision process.

So, before you whip out the pitchforks and torches to go CSM hunting, you might want to try to put yourself in their shoes and try walking a mile in them. I can tell you from experience... it's not easy and you will NEVER be able to please everyone.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
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