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Show of support for getting dev time for fixing the blob 1000 VS 1 AKA The Alpha Problem.

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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-01-12 12:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
baltec1 wrote:
I spend a alot of the time outnumbered several hundred to 1. The trick is to pick your targets well and be ready to gtfo.

No changes needed, just smarter brave pilots.


I agree, there is no need for an change.. .
But improving current mechanics to allow everyone in blob to actually learn how to fly and what to do .. sound like good strategy to increase pilots willing to contribute.

So from .. i need to get in or else i can get booted out of my place..
to .. well i join lets see what we can do ..Big smile
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2012-01-12 12:07:43 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I spend a alot of the time outnumbered several hundred to 1. The trick is to pick your targets well and be ready to gtfo.

No changes needed, just smarter brave pilots.


I agree, there is no need for an change.. .
But improving current mechanics to allow everyone in blob to actually learn how to fly and what to do .. sound like good strategy to increase pilots willing to contribute.


Thats the job of the alliance and FCBlink
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-01-12 12:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
baltec1 wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I spend a alot of the time outnumbered several hundred to 1. The trick is to pick your targets well and be ready to gtfo.

No changes needed, just smarter brave pilots.


I agree, there is no need for an change.. .
But improving current mechanics to allow everyone in blob to actually learn how to fly and what to do .. sound like good strategy to increase pilots willing to contribute.


Thats the job of the alliance and FCBlink





Sure, but if the current combat style is effective and it is .. for sure. I cant see any FC who actually want to win trying to make said fight engaging and fun.

Sure there is several rooms in fleet which are pretty much interesting to be in..
interdictors for one, forward, backward scouts etc. Warp in, warp out point guys...
Stealthbomber squads etc. but it can be fun even for regular guy in tempest or hurricane Big smile

i for one prefer the mass blob, as all i do is listen and execute the orders.. And i am part of the fight.
But i can imagine there are people who actually wants some challenge Cool
Cindy Marco
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-01-12 12:29:19 UTC
Its not a problem at all.

If 100 or more ships the same size as yours are shooting you at once, you should be destroyed very quickly.
Valei Khurelem
#45 - 2012-01-12 12:32:49 UTC
Cindy Marco wrote:
Its not a problem at all.

If 100 or more ships the same size as yours are shooting you at once, you should be destroyed very quickly.


I actually agree with this, the problem with EVE isn't the fact that numbers are how you win this game, it's the fact that numbers are the only way to win in this game.

I mean, can't we have some options that at least allow a lone player to take down at least a few more ships than them if they are skilled enough? What about being able to suicide and take a bunch with them? What about using the environment to hide properly or something that doesn't revolve around cloaking technology that prevents them from being scanned?

Why can't I do stuff like in sci-fi movies where they turn off everything except oxygen and stop the enemy from being able to detect me? Nothing like that is in EVE aside from cloaking and that's bloody expensive for something you use just to hide and use hit and run tactics with.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2012-01-12 12:39:58 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:


Sure, but if the current combat style is effective and it is .. for sure. I cant see any FC who actually want to win trying to make said fight engaging and fun.

Sure there is several rooms in fleet which are pretty much interesting to be in..
interdictors for one, forward, backward scouts etc. Warp in, warp out point guys...
Stealthbomber squads etc. but it can be fun even for regular guy in tempest or hurricane Big smile

i for one prefer the mass blob, as all i do is listen and execute the orders.. And i am part of the fight.
But i can imagine there are people who actually wants some challenge Cool


Im often in a bomber either scouting or scapping in the middle of a fight. Even had me calling targets at times. Getting warp ins on a hostile fleet while trying not to warp into a bubble is funBig smile Its amazing how few people choose to be a scout tbh.
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-01-12 12:40:15 UTC
Large scale PvP is a lot more diverse than it used to be. It used to be all about sniper battleships (and ECM, there's always ECM),

Then we got probes, and now it's about midrange. Hellcats, alphafleet, armour HACs, triage carriers, logistics ships, long-webbing recons, ECM, bombers, newbros in Rifters. OH GOD SUPERCAP HOTDROP, EVERYONE'S DEAD!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2012-01-12 12:45:08 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Cindy Marco wrote:
Its not a problem at all.

If 100 or more ships the same size as yours are shooting you at once, you should be destroyed very quickly.


I actually agree with this, the problem with EVE isn't the fact that numbers are how you win this game, it's the fact that numbers are the only way to win in this game.

I mean, can't we have some options that at least allow a lone player to take down at least a few more ships than them if they are skilled enough? What about being able to suicide and take a bunch with them? What about using the environment to hide properly or something that doesn't revolve around cloaking technology that prevents them from being scanned?

Why can't I do stuff like in sci-fi movies where they turn off everything except oxygen and stop the enemy from being able to detect me? Nothing like that is in EVE aside from cloaking and that's bloody expensive for something you use just to hide and use hit and run tactics with.


Im causing all sorts of problems in a 0.0 hub in a cheap bomber. Damn near got an apoc but a saber spooked me. Hit warp just as the saber jumped through so I could have kiled that apocSad

An alliance can shut down a much larger one simply by using small 1 to 5 man gangs all over the place with good pilots.
ASadOldGit
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-01-12 12:54:41 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Stacking penalties on weapon fire.

Someone fires 100 missiles on one target - and all the missiles survive - lol wut?
The larger the ship - the more ships can shoot it.
The smaller the ship - the less ships can shoot it.

Break off fleets into real squads and wings. With REAL squad commanders and wing commanders.


Yes, but you'd also need new FC tools to help them manage multiple targets and multiple squads, which increases the complexity of the project, although I'm sure most FC's would like some better tools to do their job, such as a multi-tiered approach
e.g. FC multi-selects a bunch of targets and drags them over a squad commander and leaves it up to that SC to prioritise targets; at a higher level, someone would drag one fleet over a destination, and send others to another destination, with a strategic point of view.

(sorry for the details in a non-F&I thread, but +1 for getting the devs to look into the blob issue.)

Although I haven't experienced it yet, hands up all those who actually enjoy being blobbed, with a 10 or 100 to one ratio, knowing you can never win, week after week after week. This is a game, not a simulator - it's supposed to be enjoyable (which is not against the idea that it can still be harsh and challenging).

This signature intentionally left blank for you to fill in at your leisure.
Gripen
#50 - 2012-01-12 13:05:42 UTC
If I had to choose one thing I could change in EVE that would be it.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-01-12 13:24:11 UTC
we alpha triage carriers, deal with it

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-01-12 13:24:45 UTC
i have a better idea

bring more friends

lmao

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-01-12 13:30:37 UTC
The problem as I see it is not alpha by itself, but the ability to completely destroy an opponents ship before they can react with a counter of any form.

This occurs when many alpha ships all fire at one opponent.

I think the solution to this is to add a new module: the Remote Resist Booster. This module would be able to remotely boost the armor or shield resists of the target ship. This would allow the fleet being attacked to respond while being locked and boost the resists of the attacked ship so that it could withstand the volley.

Combining this with an increased lock time for larger fleets perhaps could maybe work?

Obviously passive targetting would have to be looked at - the fleet being alpha'd would need to be aware who was being locked somehow and have time to react.

Now I know this would need careful balancing so it wasn't overpowered, but I think it would add a new interesting dimension to the game.

Flame on.
Alara IonStorm
#54 - 2012-01-12 13:32:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
wn a much larger one simply by using small 1 to 5 man gangs all over the place with good pilots.

I have been on the receiving end of this tactic around the fall of the NC. While they never got me a lot of people who didn't pay attention bought it.

Bombers everywhere, small Nano Gangs always passing through. I was afraid to move systems often enough without a Cloak. The 500 Man Maelstrom Blobs were an inconvenience. These Gangs were the the Bane of the Alliance.

A war of attrition is how you break an Alliances spirit. 500 Man Blobs that appear at a scheduled time with every pilot who X'd up a while ago to pop a cheap POS that I had a few Ships in barely tickled in the long run.

They are the reason members bled off, they are the reason Gang attendance by the not so PvP motivated that make up 80% of the Blob started to drop as people left. They are the reason I felt trapped in my own Sov.

They are the reason Wars are lost.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-01-12 13:33:35 UTC
Andski wrote:
i have a better idea

bring more friends

lmao


sure it works, but in the end its same old boring stuff all over and over again.. nothing new to be gained.. just the same old grind stuff..

Who really enjoys it ? Apart of me because i am incompetent.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-01-12 13:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
ASadOldGit wrote:

Yes, but you'd also need new FC tools to help them manage multiple targets and multiple squads, which increases the complexity of the project, although I'm sure most FC's would like some better tools to do their job, such as a multi-tiered approach
e.g. FC multi-selects a bunch of targets and drags them over a squad commander and leaves it up to that SC to prioritise targets; at a higher level, someone would drag one fleet over a destination, and send others to another destination, with a strategic point of view.

(sorry for the details in a non-F&I thread, but +1 for getting the devs to look into the blob issue.)

Although I haven't experienced it yet, hands up all those who actually enjoy being blobbed, with a 10 or 100 to one ratio, knowing you can never win, week after week after week. This is a game, not a simulator - it's supposed to be enjoyable (which is not against the idea that it can still be harsh and challenging).



thats the actual point.. to not needing FCs and not be dependable on them so much.. Everyone in their right minds will make decision and will work effectively in small squad will know what to do and when to do it. Ultimately creating large playerbase of actual combat pilots ..
And that even in 2500 blues on local .. and 2200 reds.. there will be fights .. it could be interesting etc.
Well technical difficulties aside..

All it needs is more differentiate overview.. see if some squad already attacking enemies squad and therefore chose to help them or move to fight with another squad..
Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-01-12 13:49:16 UTC
You got blobbed, lost your shiny ship, and come to the EVE-O forums to whine about it.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-01-12 13:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Zagam wrote:
You got blobbed, lost your shiny ship, and come to the EVE-O forums to whine about it.



And you cant read.. and is incompetent and fully dependable on someone who says what you have to shoot.
Deal with it ??

Anyway who lose any ship to an blob ? Apart of the ship you are in in another blob ?

People are afraid that they have to actually learn something .. i understand that.. I am at the same part of barricade.

"Some" change is not needed i give you that.. But if "some" change can make fleet battles fun and increase total players who enjoys it and learn from it from currently non to "some" it seems like an good idea.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#59 - 2012-01-12 13:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Cindy Marco wrote:
Its not a problem at all.

If 100 or more ships the same size as yours are shooting you at once, you should be destroyed very quickly.


Has no one learnt in the past ten or so years that deploying an army, when a small tactical team would be more effective, is and in EVE's case should be expensive and ineffective? Ugh

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#60 - 2012-01-12 14:03:55 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Cindy Marco wrote:
Its not a problem at all.

If 100 or more ships the same size as yours are shooting you at once, you should be destroyed very quickly.


Has no one learnt in the past ten or so years that deploying an army, when a small tactical team would be more effective, is and in EVE's case should be expensive and ineffective? Ugh


Last time my corp went into IRC space with 15 guys we had 80+ get dumped on us. We killed 3-4 times more than they did over 3 systems before they snapped our back. Our survivors limped home happy, IRC swaggered home with a victory.

Everyone was happy.