EVE General Discussion

my hype was killed by this....

most will build citadels of course but will not be living there exclusively because of this.

The feature set that Citadels are being deployed with is rather poor in general. Instead of exciting new options such as local police/gate gunsin null, system upgrades, changes even to local rats and sites etc., we instead are faced with 'gimped' versions of the old regular station with an added force field that happens to be able to dock a Titan.

It just isn't exciting enough to be groundbreaking.

Fixing all of the regular station features to work is essential prior to release, but the possibilities that could have been pursued but never were is what really gets me.

Bear in mind that this is just the first iteration of a much larger deployment. If CCP really follows through with this then we get everything people are hoping for mentioned above. Things like player build gates (and guns ofc), trade hubs, mining drills, moon harvesting, etc.
Everything now owned by NPC or in POS form will eventually be transferred to Citadel or something like it. Provided the first iteration isn't a complete bust and the project gets moth-balled, like so many before...

Without the ability to have replacement ships fitted and up on contracts, I don't see many alliances using these as staging points.

It doesn't matter if contract are available or not (in high sec).

I do not know why CCP thinks people will move out of Jita or the hubs into a player run structure that WILL be destroyed.

I do not care if your stuff gets moved for free somewhere else in system, you will still have to wait x number of days to get it back (I do not think same system delivery is instant). Even if it is instant, you would then have to go through the process of moving the stuff to another citadel AND relisting every market order you had.

The cost along of moving stuff a second time would eat away a ton of your profit margins from selling in a citadel.

The worse case scenerio is people get locked out of the citadel and can't get their stuff back.

I'm sorry, but CCP is failing on this particular idea. All that will happen is prices in Jita will rise to deal with the new taxes, and thus prices will rise everywhere in Eve because if we are honest, everything in Eve is priced in some way according to Jita prices.

This.

You can wax poetic about contracts and CREST so that CCP implements those features and doesn't forget about them, but no trader is going to move their stock to a citadel that can prevent them from docking and cancel their market privileges, the next day.

The only way for a trader to be sure of continued access is if they own the citadel. So that's nice, actually, each trader would have their own citadel and a monopoly on the goods inside, not letting any other traders compete (because, why not). So a pipe dream situation, until they realize that their trade monopoly citadel can be blown up.

So, I think CCP is imagining these things like in RL, where people would establish their own city-states and all would be peachy, but in EVE we burn things just for the hell of it, and city-states are just easy targets for the mongol hordes who have 0 assets invested in anything.

EDIT: Idea:

Traders don't really care about the goods they trade, beyond the value / potential for profit. I would bet that traders wouldn't mind setting up shop in a citadel that may block them if they had the equivalent of insurance: if they lose access, their goods are removed from the market and destroyed, and they get paid whatever the insurance value is.

Huge ISK faucet, but I don't think traders will try foreign citadels otherwise.

The real irony here is that Jita is a player-made trade hub. Jita exists because what players do, and is driven by mass behavior forces and not individual will or CCP design.

Sorry, wrong.

If a frigate costs 300k to make and is sold in Jita for 500k, resulting in 150k profit after 10% tax, why would the citadel trader not list his frigate also for 500k and get 190k profit after 2% tax?

Things are NEVER cheaper to buy; the seller always goes for pocketing more profit.



Well, you always plan for the worst case scenario, and the worst case scenario is that your 500 bn citadel attracts the attention of PL or the Goons, who want to destroy it. So tell me what successful highsec corp with a combination of industrial and combat pilots will survive that attack on their fixed asset in space with known vulnerability timers.

Why should anyone move to a citadel? The corp that runs a Jita replacement will make tons of Isk so someone will either destroy it or have a new one with lower taxes. In the end the tax will be a 0. Even 0.05% will earn the Company massive amount of money if you look at the trade in Jita.
Traders want low taxes but they even more want safety. You can calculate with 5% taxes but not with a blown up Station. A Station that will be a rival to Jita needs to be run by someone everyone trusts. I can't see anyone/anycorp fullfilling this requirement.

People are known to being wrong each now and then. CCP can be 100% convinced of something and yet be horribly wrong.