EVE General Discussion

All I am going to say is... It is evident that there seems to be more idiots in EVE now than before I left 2 years ago.

Time to flex my HAM Legions muscles again I think.

Blanket decing has been happening in highsec for years. This is not some new meta no matter what people are crying about, Nor did most of the groups that are involved ever hunt their dec targets since they already mass decced. Having sat in belts mining away quite happily while under decs and just used cloakies when at a trade hub.

Net result change, pretty much zero to before. If under Dec and flying a non cloaky industrial or travelling. Use a scout.
If not under Dec, don't care.
If under Dec and no scout, don't fly easy to kill ship and be ready to crash gate to escape again.

Yeah we can't have the defenders have any sort of advantage, we PAID for a turkey shoot!

You declared WAR on someone, theoretically there should be some risk to doing this indiscriminately.

Yeah, but you can do that right now. If you have 5 ships, 4 can be hyper efficient miners with some drone firepower for dealing with rats (a normal setup), and 1 cruiser sitting in cloak. Lone wolf comes in, thinks he has easy prey, take down 1 possibly two before all get fully scattered, not a bad haul. So in he goes, pins down 2 but suddenly everyone is launching drones, no biggie, he can tank some low grade drones. Then the cruiser decloaks, pins him down and pounds him with some drone assist.

This is pretty much what a lot of mining groups do right now.

I'm not sure the lone wolf is necessarily the issue or even group fighting. Again, I'm not tossing out your idea, just that I'm not seeing why a major design concept change is needed to get ships that can do what you are looking at.



The idea so intrigued me that I actually went out and did a virtual build of it. 5 Mining lasers that ended up about 70% as effective as a procurer, 312 dps with combat drones, and a decent shield tank with 830 m3 of cargo space for Jet Can mining.

Yeah, it would be able to hold off a mediocre player in a cruiser for a while, but at 400 million to build the critter, I can have 15 Procurer's shot out from under me and out mine the thing massively. So fun experiment, but hybrid ships are really hard to justify in EVE.

Maybe someone else can come up with something better for cheaper... fun build challenge. The Brutal Miner Challenge...

Funny you bring that up.

Tell me, people who have one eye on their wallet and to whom everything is ISK, ISK, and more ISK, end up doing what?

The apparent answer is: anything that brings in the most ISK for the least cost. Some call this grinding, other call it sperging, which seems to be an epidemic in MMOs where there is someone else around to see (or tell of ) your worth, wealth, or status. Even those who don't boast of their great piles of ISK know that they can.

In the case of Eve, it would appear that highsec incursions bring in the most loot, but naturally there are plenty of arguments to go around for that because players are different and/or play in different time zones. Even their own culture might affect this. So some will say that market trading is the thing, others will say incursions, and there are those who can blitz L4s well enough that they rival incursion income (or think they did - but that's for countless other threads past and present).


So, what's the other metric? If you have read my posts in the past, you would know where I'm going with this.


Stats, the sort that pertain to PVP in particular. It's an even bigger trophy because anybody can look up your ratios. You can keep ISK a secret, but not your kills and losses.

And there is just as much sperging, and here comes the same question: How do you bring in the most kills/ISK destroyed while minimizing losses/ISK lost?

Like the appearance that all roads lead to highsec incursions (true or not - influenced by the same reasons) for ISK, all roads for good PVP stats would appear to be joining a highsec wardec organization and camping gates in highsec.

Now, setting aside the arguments over what's more efficient, and again player skills could have much to do with it, it would appear that highsec gate camping is the best way to go about it. Nullsec has a lot of "travel for a bit and get ganked" and of course don't forget the BLOPs drops but nullsec structure already pretty much has it all blueballed up or if you are not blue, you are going to be black and blue in short order.

Unless you know how to travel meaning you will be in backwater systems not finding targets, meaning it takes too long to get a kill. And we can all see what sperging is about: if not tanking that indy means making 100 million ISK instead of 90 Million ISK (in spite of having piles of it already), that indy won't be tanked. For the same reason, if it takes 1 hour to get a good kill in nullsec or lowsec but you can get one in 55 minutes in highsec, guess what's going to happen.


Nullsec roaming and lowsec camping is not efficient enough to meet sperg requirements for PVP stats, just as (arguably) running nullsec anoms versus highsec incursions for ISK.

Then there is loss of course. I once had an exploration fit Cyclone run off a 5 man gang in a wormhole (this was before SoE ships) not out of bravery or they had time to look at my great prowess (which is pretty bad actually). They ran off because while they could have won easily, all 5 of them could not go forward with enough confidence that they would not be the one I took down with me. So they all ran off at once.

So of course it's all going to end up in highsec where the PVPers are just as safe from loss in PVP as people who are in non-PVP endeavors and/or actively avoid it. Losing a ship is damaging to stats in PVP, or damaging to the wallet of an ISK-aholic. Both measure their self worth against these metrics (neither truly enjoy the game, as a rare CODE. meltdown shows us on occasion).

Personally I think the price of a war-dec should be directly pegged to inflation in the "war zone" region, i.e. wherever the HQ is for the aggressing corp also factoring in the victim corp.

This would further add to the market variations by region.

They currently can't fly in pair to slingshot a ship into warp but you expect people to fly in group of 5+?

Does this mean that "Hello there OP" will be making a regular appearance on the forums?

People that like pvp usually have mediocre efficiency. Especially in the small gang or solo fields.
But they have fun and by Jove, they are fun to fly with.
Stat-monkeys are just carebears of a different order, the hisec ones rarely stray far from hubs or pipes their targets need, for fear of finding actual violence.

the problem is that hisec wardeccers can easily go out seal-clubbing organizations liek eve uni, with no skin in the game, you show up with 20dessies, they undock t3's and play station games. or, they dec a couple hundered corps, and sit in uedama blapping stuff.

another problem with hisec presently, is suiganking. it's too easy, too inexspensive. a freighter costs 1.2b for the hull, and easily carries (and really, it's hard not to) 2b in hisec ore, but they're so big, slow, unarmed, and lightly-tanked (at most 200k isk EHP).

due to the prevalence of gankers and bumpers, the risk is greater in hisec than anywhere else, all for what? like 50m, to go from jita, to say, metroplolis?