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Bye bye watch lists
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Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#261 - 2016-03-16 02:05:39 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:

I think your killboard is embarrassing enough without going out of my way to find you.


If you could (and please try to) keep up, I already said I run as a solo explorer. I don't hunt. I also run 90% of the time in WHs/NS/LS. I challenged a HS wardeccer to follow me out of HS because I know he will be too terrified to leave that safety and follow me.

His KB is so risk averse that it never leaves HS and virtually never even tries for anything other than mining and indy ships. Again, that was the point here.

Mortlake wrote:
Yes, you were still there, and now you're not. You do realize that locator agents still work, right? So, as discussed please forward the aforementioned entrance location for the wormhole that you're currently hiding in and we can get this done.


One more timy Morty, I'm in WHs for the next while. Please come and find me. That might mess up your KB stats though, so I am sure you won't take me up on it. I will message you the loc of the entrance to my chain. You will have to scan it out and find me in it, though. Let's have some fun and see if you can leave HS. None of your alts too. You, just you. Let's risk your KB for a change.

"KB inflation trumps actual challenges any day!" --the motto of a HS merc
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
#262 - 2016-03-16 02:20:16 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
My thoughts on how to bring some reasonable watchlisting functions back:

Watchlist/Buddlylist works when at least 1 of the following conditions is met:

1: Player is mutually watchlisted (buddy or not).

2: Player is a valid wartarget *and* is in highsec. FW enemies can be watchlisted in lowsec (even if supercap?).

3: Player has a killright against him/her and *you* have access to it (either by being the one who was awarded the killright, or by the killright being transfered/made public). This would be irrelevant of location, so yes super pilots could be watchlisted if they had killrights against them.

4: Player has a security status low enough to be attacked by the local police (dependant on individual system sec rating, and obviously only works in highsec like #2)

5: Player has a security status of -5 or lower (outlaw) - works in high/low sec, but not null/WH.


I posted a proposal before this change came out suggesting most of this. It was completely ignored. To be specific, I proposed two ideas:

1) Determining that someone is a "valid target", such as via war or killrights. Your addtion of criminal sec status is interesting, though I don't know that it would be particularly useful.

2) Disabling online status updates for non-buddies if you are in null/w-space. This would probably require more significant coding changes. The lore would indicate that the watch list only worked in Empire-controlled areas, and outside that the character was "off grid".

Re 1: criminal sec status would fit lore-wise, CONCORD allowing the watch listing of outlaws, though agreed, might be of limited usefulness.

Re: 2: yeah, would require more coding changes, but like you said, it can fit into the lore, which is why I suggested it.

FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
Well... ok here's a convoluted suggestion for W-space residents *stuff* This is probably not my best idea.


Yeah, I'm gonna go with a big NO on that idea. That would completely remove the need for all current security practices in w-space and make it Null 2.0.

Yeah, I would say "no" to myself too, just tacked it on there as a "hey this could conceivably be made to fit from lore but is otherwise a terrible idea" P

Just don't know what to do about w-space that would make any sense while simultaneously leaving nullsec mostly off-watch.

Unless watchlisting were to come back fully with no target restrictions - but - put in a delay mechanic of some sort, like not seeing them until they've either changed systems/undocked or some arbitrary time limit (5 or 10 minutes?) or you are already in the same system as them (outside of w-space). Likewise logoffs wouldn't register immediately.

But I think I like the 'valid target' stuff better.
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#263 - 2016-03-16 08:47:49 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Cara Forelli wrote:

I think your killboard is embarrassing enough without going out of my way to find you.


If you could (and please try to) keep up, I already said I run as a solo explorer. I don't hunt. I also run 90% of the time in WHs/NS/LS. I challenged a HS wardeccer to follow me out of HS because I know he will be too terrified to leave that safety and follow me.

His KB is so risk averse that it never leaves HS and virtually never even tries for anything other than mining and indy ships. Again, that was the point here.

Mortlake wrote:
Yes, you were still there, and now you're not. You do realize that locator agents still work, right? So, as discussed please forward the aforementioned entrance location for the wormhole that you're currently hiding in and we can get this done.


One more timy Morty, I'm in WHs for the next while. Please come and find me. That might mess up your KB stats though, so I am sure you won't take me up on it. I will message you the loc of the entrance to my chain. You will have to scan it out and find me in it, though. Let's have some fun and see if you can leave HS. None of your alts too. You, just you. Let's risk your KB for a change.

"KB inflation trumps actual challenges any day!" --the motto of a HS merc


Still awaiting details of your location, or an approximation at least.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#264 - 2016-03-16 09:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Mieyli
Chase me! Chase me! I'll be waiting for you in one the hardest to navigate parts of eve and I'll give you no information to go on. Good luck finding me in one of many thousand wormholes!
- Isaac

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2016-03-16 09:12:36 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Chase me! Chase me! I'll be waiting for you in one the hardest to navigate parts of eve and I'll give you no information to go on. Good luck finding me in one of many thousand wormholes!
- Isaac

well... i don't see much trouble for professional merc to find and kill person with 'the most embarassing killboard'.... Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#266 - 2016-03-16 09:24:13 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Chase me! Chase me! I'll be waiting for you in one the hardest to navigate parts of eve and I'll give you no information to go on. Good luck finding me in one of many thousand wormholes!
- Isaac

well... i don't see much trouble for professional merc to find and kill person with 'the most embarassing killboard'.... Cool

we know where he is, any time i'v checked hes been logged off in highsec

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#267 - 2016-03-16 10:06:04 UTC
Chase me guys, I'm usually found in bosena mining afk in a belt

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#268 - 2016-03-16 19:47:20 UTC
Mortlake wrote:
Still awaiting details of your location, or an approximation at least.


Message will be sent when I get home from work.

Mr Mieyli wrote:
Chase me! Chase me! I'll be waiting for you in one the hardest to navigate parts of eve and I'll give you no information to go on. Good luck finding me in one of many thousand wormholes!
- Isaac


I'd be happy to give a kill to someone whose proven to be too afraid to leave HS if they actually follow. I'm assuming he will either send someone else, or use an alt though, b/c taking that character out of HS will risk damaging his KB, which is 100% the point here.
Starrakatt
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#269 - 2016-03-16 20:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Starrakatt
Isaac Armer wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
Still awaiting details of your location, or an approximation at least.


Message will be sent when I get home from work.

Mr Mieyli wrote:
Chase me! Chase me! I'll be waiting for you in one the hardest to navigate parts of eve and I'll give you no information to go on. Good luck finding me in one of many thousand wormholes!
- Isaac


I'd be happy to give a kill to someone whose proven to be too afraid to leave HS if they actually follow. I'm assuming he will either send someone else, or use an alt though, b/c taking that character out of HS will risk damaging his KB, which is 100% the point here.

You do realize that most of us Hisec carebears have done Nulsec, Lowsec and WH before, mmm?

Join Celtic Anarchy!

Sneaky bastard.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#270 - 2016-03-17 00:57:07 UTC
Starrakatt wrote:
You do realize that most of us Hisec carebears have done Nulsec, Lowsec and WH before, mmm?


You can say it all you want, they never listen. When I'm accused of being risk-averse and/or only knowing how to live in highsec, I simply suggest they google "wormhole nomad".

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#271 - 2016-03-17 01:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sustrai Aditua
Using your "friends" list to track the people you hate? What a novel idea! That has all the maturity of a Facebook page!! (What? EVE has a Facebook page? OMFG!! Where have we gone wrong?)

If you got addicted to a cheesey way of knowing when your "buddies" are online, that's a pisspoor shame.
If you know how to conduct warfare, you aren't dependent upon such tawdry means.

Cry moar.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#272 - 2016-03-17 01:13:38 UTC
Starrakatt wrote:

You do realize that most of us Hisec carebears have done Nulsec, Lowsec and WH before, mmm?


I just sent him an entrance to my WH chain. I'm in this for fun, not KB stats by keeping any one character in HS to inflate them. I will thoroughly enjoy him hunting me, provided he risks that KB ratio and does it with that toon.

Assuming he's not to afraid of ******* up his KB on that toon by leaving HS, let the games begin. Again, thats the point of all this.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#273 - 2016-03-17 04:46:02 UTC
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
Using your "friends" list to track the people you hate?


Wow. You swallowed the Kool-Aid quick, man. We used the "watch list" to watch our enemies. Even the ones we didn't hate.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#274 - 2016-03-17 07:28:53 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Starrakatt wrote:

You do realize that most of us Hisec carebears have done Nulsec, Lowsec and WH before, mmm?


I just sent him an entrance to my WH chain. I'm in this for fun, not KB stats by keeping any one character in HS to inflate them. I will thoroughly enjoy him hunting me, provided he risks that KB ratio and does it with that toon.

Assuming he's not to afraid of ******* up his KB on that toon by leaving HS, let the games begin. Again, thats the point of all this.


No, you didn't. You sent a mail stating that the entrance to your chain is in one of 20 possible systems. It might have helped if you'd sent the actual J so I could at least attempt to narrow it down. If you're not serious then simply say so, because now you just look like you're stalling.

Isaac Armer wrote:

I will literally give you the j-sig of the system I'm in if you actually risk leaving HS.



Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
Starrakatt
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#275 - 2016-03-17 12:17:19 UTC
He's just trolling you Mortlake, he knows it is practically impossible to find a specific character in a random WH (no Local), which he can move from whenever, where he can't be Located anyhow (This individual is out of my zone of influence. Thank you for using my services, your Agent.) and especially since you don't even know if he's online, thanks to CCP.

At this point he is just trolling and being obnoxious.

What I'd do, is bid my time, wait for the war to wear off, and gank the **** out of him on gate when he travels to Jita or Amarr to sell his stuff.

Or just ignore his chiildish behaviour.

Join Celtic Anarchy!

Sneaky bastard.
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#276 - 2016-03-17 13:26:12 UTC
Starrakatt wrote:
He's just trolling you Mortlake, he knows it is practically impossible to find a specific character in a random WH (no Local), which he can move from whenever, where he can't be Located anyhow (This individual is out of my zone of influence. Thank you for using my services, your Agent.) and especially since you don't even know if he's online, thanks to CCP.

At this point he is just trolling and being obnoxious.

What I'd do, is bid my time, wait for the war to wear off, and gank the **** out of him on gate when he travels to Jita or Amarr to sell his stuff.

Or just ignore his chiildish behaviour.


Oh I know that. I'm just playing along...

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#277 - 2016-03-18 03:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Isaac Armer
Mortlake wrote:
No, you didn't. You sent a mail stating that the entrance to your chain is in one of 20 possible systems. It might have helped if you'd sent the actual J so I could at least attempt to narrow it down. If you're not serious then simply say so, because now you just look like you're stalling.[/quote

I gave you an entrance to a chain I was in. You decided to whine on forums instead of hunting me. Thanks for proving my point. The fact that you whined on forums instead of trying to hunt me proves what a bear you are. Step out of HS and actually take a risk, or just go back to shooting miners and indys, as most HS bears do. But fine. Sending you the specific j-sig now. I look forward to you (and not an alt or friend) leaving HS to find me.

[quote=Starrakatt]He's just trolling you Mortlake, he knows it is practically impossible to find a specific character in a random WH (no Local), which he can move from whenever, where he can't be Located anyhow (This individual is out of my zone of influence. Thank you for using my services, your Agent.) and especially since you don't even know if he's online, thanks to CCP.

At this point he is just trolling and being obnoxious.

What I'd do, is bid my time, wait for the war to wear off, and gank the **** out of him on gate when he travels to Jita or Amarr to sell his stuff.

Or just ignore his chiildish behaviour.


"childish behavior"

I agree with that phrase. pretending HS mercs are actually PvP-ers when they are as risk averse as miners while being terrified of leaving HS is very childish. My thanks for proving my point. You seem to actually leave HS, so I respect you, so don't take this as an insult against you. It's still wondering if Morty will ever actually risk that character outside of HS. Until he does, nothing he says really holds any weight.

And ironically the messages I've sent him has been 100% accurate with my location. If he was willing to scout a few WHs, he would have found me. I'm going to keep sending him my location, to see if he ever risks leaving HS. Not likely for a HS carebear though.
Uta Benigna
Grim Gambler
#278 - 2016-03-18 08:21:17 UTC
chances are high that already someone else said that but anyway i will do. For my chars who are doing a lot of mining in highsec the watchlist is our only intel. Dont tell me i should have scouts in other systems as i already sub 6 accs - my only chance is to see when people who had aggressed me before come on and then decide maybe better get the fleet back to station. When i see them on the OV it's already too late. Thanks CCP for making mining even more exciting and rewarding (just in case - this sentence is sarcastic)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#279 - 2016-03-18 09:26:52 UTC
Uta Benigna wrote:
chances are high that already someone else said that but anyway i will do. For my chars who are doing a lot of mining in highsec the watchlist is our only intel. Dont tell me i should have scouts in other systems as i already sub 6 accs - my only chance is to see when people who had aggressed me before come on and then decide maybe better get the fleet back to station. When i see them on the OV it's already too late. Thanks CCP for making mining even more exciting and rewarding (just in case - this sentence is sarcastic)
If the first you see of them is on your overview, you're doing it wrong; you can still use the standing mechanic to set people you want to keep an eye on as red, they'll show up in local as such before they show up on your overview.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#280 - 2016-03-18 10:31:40 UTC
Uta Benigna wrote:
chances are high that already someone else said that but anyway i will do. For my chars who are doing a lot of mining in highsec the watchlist is our only intel. Dont tell me i should have scouts in other systems as i already sub 6 accs - my only chance is to see when people who had aggressed me before come on and then decide maybe better get the fleet back to station. When i see them on the OV it's already too late. Thanks CCP for making mining even more exciting and rewarding (just in case - this sentence is sarcastic)


Or do what I do on my mining alt. find yourself a belt and open up d-scan. It works best if you find a belt far from the busiest parts of the system and keep your eyes on the scanner. That way when you're mining in your skiff and a few catalysts show up you can think "these guys are likely here for me, better bail" before they are even on grid with you. Watchlist is not your only intel, it's not even that useful intel (for a HS miner) all it does is say a certain player is online. Local and d-scan tell you useful intel, who is in system able to harm you, and what ships are they flying.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.