Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

Then build a citadel and do that. And adapt to the fact that citadels by their nature do more than just hat and thus require more to get the same output as a POS. I get it, you want to put in no effort, adapt to nothing get the benefits of a citadel including the extra 3% refine you repeatedly fail to acknowledge. Adapt or don't nobody cares, but sit around whining that you're not getting everything served to you is only going to guarantee you get a hostile response to your comments.

Yup, but that doesn't mean that's a good mechanic to keep without a cost. A citadel I imagine you can tear down too but lose the rigs.

Of course there's the opportunity. He's already stated he can made a medium, and there's no chance he I mining so much ice and ore that he can't achieve a higher rate of efficiency (thanks to the extra 3% refine) from a citadel than from a POS. Again, it's down to a refusal to adapt. Sure, he might not be able to do the exact same thing he currently does and achieve the exact same result, that's what happens when games change. But from the information he's given, he could easily adapt and do better. I have no time for players actively out to cripple themselves who then whine about how unfair it is.

Well on that we disagree. We'll see how CCP deals with that going forward.

Sure, and while trading doesn't specifically reward players n a group groups certainly can achieve more, and even as a solo trader you can make far more by engaging other players and making business contacts. I've at no point claimed everyone should join a group nor have I claimed that everyone should play my way, but solo players who refuse to even cooperate with other players (even if not by joining groups) can expect to fall behind.

Further, any attempt to specifically give solo players benefits will only give the same benefits to individual members of groups who will then be able to utilise their rewards to help each other. In that way it's basically impossible to give benefits to solo players over player who realise what MMO means even if CCP did lose their minds and try to do it.

I completely agree with what you said.

That is a bit harsh. You do not have to get exasperated from trying to moderate what goes on in this thread, and remember that not everyone in this thread is hell bent on not adapting. This thread is meant for players to voice their opinion. If someone feels that their playstyle is within the confines of how EVE is meant to be played then let them speak without berating them. No one gains anything from it.

I think it is silly to split up ice like they did. It should probably be split along the same lines as the ore if at all, but according to you I should just shut up and adapt (it doesn't really affect me btw). Why then should I try and give any feedback? If I make a comment someone might enlighten me.

That statement seems dangerously close to being a paradox. I see your point, but I would like to avoid pointlessly alienating people from this game.

I never said solo players need benefits. The game already gives benefits to groups not solo players, and I think that is fine. I do not want to see solo players completely ignored as an invalid playstyle.

I'm not getting exasperated or moderating anything. Like other players I'm simply voicing my opinion.

You can give your opinion, and I can disagree. The way they've split up ice is racially, so that small citadels can happily refine the ice in their region then both high and low end or or just one or the other if you want to fit something else. If you are big enough to be seriously mining ice from multiple regions (and for some reason are shipping it uncompressed to one location for compression/processing) then you should be able to justify a large. The reality is that most small groups won't mine all four types of ice and most small corps that do mine multiple types will process or compress it locally then ship it, so would require facilities in multiple locations.

If someone is coming along thinking that this game will allow them to play completely isolated from other player and further cater specifically to them for choosing to do that then I want to alienate them. It saves them wasting sub money. If you really do see the point then you'll understand it's nothing like a paradox. cooperating with other players doesn't mean you are part of their group.

They aren;t being ignored with these changes, they just aren't being given any benefits anyone else isn't getting.

You have completely ignored the industrialist that imports compressed ice from other regions to make fuel blocks to sell.

I have never said "completely isolated", and I have never said a player should be allowed to avoid all cooperation. I am not sure how to respond to this. I feel you have misrepresented my opinion.

The paradox was not a reference to your opinion but your statement. You practically stated "you don't have to play my way, but you have to play this way". That is very close to a paradox.

I do not think we will agree on this, so I am going to drop it. I just do not see it as black and white as you do.

Yes, you were whining about how you were not going to get the same benefits from a medium citadel as opposed to a POS and refused to look at what other ways a citadel, medium or large could work for you.

While I am a NS player I did live there for awhile and I do spend time there, actually quite a bit doing stuff for the invention work.

And yes, I have taken part in HS war decs. Since they are usually against industrial corps there is not much fighting. It is usually along the lines of preying on the ignorant who undock into the waiting guns of some war targets. If they are smart and reasonably quick they dock up, if not...they die.

No I haven't again I just think they are a tiny minority. Remember you aren't just talking about someone making fuel blocks here, you are talking about someone shipping ice (rather than topes and compressed ice for the water/ozone which would be far cheaper to ship), build all four types of fuel block plus needing to refine all types of ore.

I think you've just misunderstood what I've mean when I'm talking about solo players, because if you're engaging others you can benefit from a lot of the same things that groups benefit from without being in a group and will do so with these citadels too.

Except that was only saying "you don't have to play my way, but you do have to play EVE". The basic point being that it's not a good idea to you come in and try to play in an isolated fashion then sit around crying like Drago because doing something completely solo and purposely crippling yourself by refusing to adapt isn't being catered to.

I imagine they are specifically going for what you are trying to avoid with your ideas, to stop medium citadels becoming complete refining hubs. People will either need to run two or bump it up to a large, which is good to encourage.

And we would suck it up, just like we suck up all the other changes intended to specifically ruin our gamplay. The way ice is currently planned to be split seems reasonable to me. The vast majority of people will be fine with it, only special snowflakes who are purposely going out of their way to be negatively impacted by it (out outright lying like Drago) will be affected.

@Lucas,

I know a guy who makes ~2.5million wrong region fuelblocks. He imports the ice and the topes. They might be a tiny minority, but they might be very large producers.

@Teckos,

NPC buy and sell orders were there to provide things that players couldn't produce, or could produce where there was no sink for them. Apart from that, nothing you mentioned was related to "This is about players [...] within the equal mechanics of NPC space".

Rob,

I know. My point is that once those started disappearing and prices were allowed to fluctuate via the market it can cause similar disruptions.

My point is, and has been, if we were to go and look at various changes over the years that Devs have made we'll find a subset of players who are butthurt about losing their "style of play". You keep saying I'm not talking about players, but I am. You just aren't getting the message. The Devs make changes, somebody's style of play is negatively impacted. It happens.

Edit: Wrong region fuel blocks? I suspect people do this all the time. For example, you might want a Gallente POS but are in "Caldari/Caldari NPC space". When I was running a POS farm, some people had Gallente POS others Caldari. And we made a **** ton of blocks too. Sooo...not sure what the point of that was.

Edit: And I have lived in NPC space, sov space, LS, HS and NS. I have seen ship doctrines come and go in all areas of space because of Devs, so don't hand me that crap about "This is about players [...] within...NPC space." You keep setting that up as some sort of important distinction when I content it is irrelevant when it comes to making the game better. In fact, I'll tell you this, players in HS will have it easier than players in NS by and large. Why? Because asset recovery will be almost surely be faster and cheaper and they'll always have the luxury of NPC stations nearby.

So this theoretical guy trying to buy stuff for 300 ships is going to do what? Put up a buy order in a Citadel somewhere and wait patiently for it to fill?