EVE General Discussion

Check their corp kill board and this thread makes more sense.

Yes, that is part of motivation, I will not disagree with that. My ideas have to be coming from somewhere. But I refer again to the fact that a) I acknowledge this might be a temp issue, and b) I acknowledge that it might be skewed long term in indy corps favor. At least I have the bravery (or insanity) to post as my main (not a shot at anyone else, just pointing out I am not trying to 'hide', as it were). Now, when my CEO finds out, well, then I will have all manner of explaining to do.

Even before checking i knew it!
Tbh, it's always the same crap, instead of growing some balls and fight back they come to the forums and whine.
Get pretty boring, pretty fast.

I don't really...understand, but big words, sounds smart. I'm sold. To whom shall I send my isk?

You have every right to post what you think. Despite what others might say, you can come here and 'whine' if you like, it's all part of the game and internet life. As posters we all have to be strong enough to deal with the return comments... otherwise, we shouldn't post. That's not a license to be a twit in our posts though.

Ralph is no troll, he's pointing out something valid and something you then validated. Turning a mild snide (yet true comment) into a sniping match will not go well for you. Just some friendly advice there.

I believe it is possible to make HiSec better/safer for Resource PvP'ers while still maintaining the Poacher/Merc play style.

Not everyone can fight in a ship, for whatever reason, they can't. There should be as much of a place in EVE for those players as there are for those that want to fight against other players that can't really defend themselves.

Ship to ship PvP players have entire swathes of space dedicated to their desires... LoSec and Null are examples. HiSec supposedly is the place that is safer for Resource PvP players, but War Dec's, to those Resource PvP'ers have made it almost worthless... as a perception. So, I understand it.

I posted a possible solution to both sides here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6396690#post6396690

If we all respected each others play styles as valid and stopped using them as methods to attack each other, I think EVE could be running very smooth in a matter of months.

It felt trollish to insinuate I am being a cry baby because, look, my corps' kill boards have a bunch of losses to war decs in the last week, obviously I am just QQ, but in the interest of rising above, I will offer an apology for name calling, ad hominem attacks serve nothing.

I am going to wait this whole situation out and see what things look like after the shiny wears off the latest changes. I am hoping this is just a temporary blip in the grand scheme of things.

No, that's not what i mean, i'm surely the last person to say to a fellow gamer "do it the way I like".
"Grow some balls" means nothing more than if wardecced, then fight back, the ships tree consists of more than mining barges and exhumers. If gankers try to gank you, then avoid a gank, which is btw, not really rocket science.
The problem is that most indys are so risk averse or even lazy, even the notion of losing a ship causes them acid reflux.

Imho, the never ending whines for a safer Highsec, don't change anything.
Tbh imho, High Sec is safe enough, it's so safe it's deadly boring, which is one of the reasons i don't mine anymore and started to train a new char which will be used for some "not so Gentlemanly acts", so to say.
I'll keep this one here, to provide me some income and that's it, but HS mining and industry, nah, I'm sick to the back teeth with.

Your argument is flawed because it assumes War decs are the issue @Op.
The issue actually goes right back to the design document for industrial ships, where they designed them like modern super tankers, for an era which has almost no piracy, and no hostile naval forces, where is all all about perfect cargo efficiency for the great dollar. This creates the situation where Industrial players are treated as second class citizens by other players that are only fit for use as targets.

They should instead have designed them off the spanish main era, where the cargo ships actually had equal guns & armour to the ships attacking them or often had more even, but had lower mobility. This would create an environment where the industrial player puts value in combat, and allow much higher risk in high sec belts simply from NPC's if that design philosophy was used, as well as get rid of the silly 'have an escort' people tout, when we all know that Indy/Miners have some of the lowest isk/hour turn over on any in space activities, and those people touting it would never do it on the rates miners could afford to pay them.

So, short version of changes. Mining Frigates should become mining destroyers. Makes more sense given their cargo capacity. Indies & Barges get treated like BC's. This in all cases makes them slower yes. Now give them a real PG/CPU, and real fitting slots including weapon slots appropriate for race. Keep them low/no on drones though, since drones are effective vs small ships, and drones take up lots of internal space with hangers etc. Now we have a much more fun meta where all sides can feel involved in a fight rather than be a floating target, and we can increase concord times to balance since they can fight back in sensible ways.

Edit: Also, leave wardecs alone. Wardecs are pretty fine, though I'd like the cost formula based on attacker not defender in most highsec cases that wouldn't change the cost anyway. Just makes it easier for a small group to harass a big group than the other way around. Otherwise war decs actually do work.

Ok, I'll bite. What do your risk calculations say the correct price of a war declaration should be now that the watch list has been removed?

Remember: regardless of what side of this issue you stand on, and whatever anybody thinks, we have a situation here where, in order to get PVP, people have to blanket dec anything with a pulse and camp gates. All in the hope of somebody outside of their time zone not getting a memo, or a noob moving some stuff, or at worst, they decced corp fights back because they understand the game and they get listed as good for deccing, and find they get rotatationally perma-decced.
(The watch list was a way of keeping track of who fought back - read: provided kills - and who did not, even as individual players, so they can be kept track of)

Somebody please try to convince me that this is good game play for anybody.

And right now, in the perspective of anybody considering the game or new to it, this situation is akin to the doors to a sausage factory being left open. Whatever argument you can make to them, for or against either side of the issue (the sausage as a whole), it's still going to look bad.

There is a long list of "things that are wrong" contributing to the issue, not just one thing. To fully address this would leave a trail of dead horses beaten to the point of being a mere grease stain on the ground. Putting an end to the watch list was a ham-handed approach that has now comprised a catalyst to amplify those other things.


It's a huge mess and somebody is going to have to admit they screwed the pooch. Protecting super pilots was a good cause, but the price of helping them has come at a cost to everybody else, wolves and bears combined.