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BREAKING: SoCT Inherits Inner Circle Position from the Jove

Author
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#21 - 2016-03-15 20:05:16 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Let's just keep it at this, you don't want Khanid having us raining tactical emp rounds on their civilian population, I don't want Eram's civilian population to receive a similar fate or reclaiming or whatever. If war truely breaks out what's stopping such a fate? We don't fear you anymore, we have a little bit more of a military as opposed to when we had the time of peace before your people graced our presence. The way things are now only the militarys are fighting, NOT the civilians. Why support anything else? Reclaiming souls is rather hard when neither side is around to receive the message.



You've struck upon a point I've made in the past.

We don't need CONCORD or those ridiculous treaties.

If Amarr swept into the Republic, they would be leaving themselves open to an attack by the Federation. If the State invaded the Federation, the Republic would probably back up the Federation. If the Amarr/Caldari engaged in war with the Federation/Republic, it would cause a dark age and hand victory to the Drifters, Sansha, Guristas, Bloodraiders, etc.. The navies could handle border patrols and law-enforcement...the things CONCORD ships do badly. Mutually assured destruction isn't a strong foundation for peace, but it's a damn sight better than endless border skirmishes and financial and cultural servitude.


Well said. Well said indeed.....
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2016-03-15 20:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:
This news is disquieting in the extreme. The lack of transparency and accountability is astonishing. To begin with, the Society is not a government. By what right does it assume powers assigned by treaty to empire governments? Merely upon the say-so of the Jove?

I would like to know how the Federation representative felt it appropriate to accept such a proposal without reference to the Senate and due debate. Was the president informed? The SoCT representative is a man wanted for questioning by a signatory power on the grave charge of involvement in the assassination of a Head of State. If the Jove Directorate is removing itself from involvement in the affairs of New Eden, surely they must abandon their seat on a body regulating said cluster?


Respectfully, Mr. Kinnison, you may misunderstand the nature of the Inner Circle a little. (Or I do, but I don't think that's so.)

The Inner Circle isn't like some sort of administrative board in the normal sense. It's a cooperative body of international powers, but that doesn't mean they have any direct control over each other's representatives. You no more get to pick someone else's Inner Circle representative than you get to pick their ambassador to your country-- less, probably, since you can refuse to admit an ambassador.

The Inner Circle is made up of representatives from a bunch of rival powers with really different internal politics. It's pretty hard to imagine the Caldari letting the Gallente have a say in whom they send; likewise, it's hard to imagine the Minmatar letting the Amarr influence which person represents the Republic. Each member probably chooses its representatives by its own means.

The power to meddle in its own internal politics is kind of one of those things just about no sovereign power is ever going to (willingly) give to another. If the Jovian Directorate wants the SoCT, in the person of Mentor Raish, representing it on the council, I really doubt anyone else gets to say no. Probably at most, they get to complain about it: "This is most irregular," etc.

I can imagine a lot of outrage. Somehow I don't think the Directorate's very embarrassed, though-- or maybe even checking its messages.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#23 - 2016-03-15 20:19:11 UTC
That the Empire has not already withdrawn from CONCORD and began mobilizing for Total War proves just how wayward and liberal it has become. Can there be any doubt that any pre-Heideran VII Emperor would not have immediately gone to war over such an outrage? Can there be any doubt that we are in the twilight of the Golden Age, watching the Empire crumble before us?

We outnumber the pathetic Republic 4-to1. Since the time of the Rebellion, we have invented Vitoc and TCMCs. There will never again be a Rebellion by anyone the Empire Reclaims. May the Blood Age come quickly. Amen. Amarr Victor.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#24 - 2016-03-15 20:19:39 UTC
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:


I fear you place too much trust in the relationships now failing under the fluid loyalties of capsules. We have Minmatar openly courting the Caldari - there are no guarantees that the Federation does not stand alone. We would stand by our obligations to the Republic because a substantial part of our population would wish it so, but I cannot be certain the reverse would apply. The old alliances are breaking down, and the balance of power - mutually assured destruction, if you will - is a bluff that may one day be called with disastrous effect. Indeed, by invading Amarr alone, the Drifters may already have called that bluff and seen how little the great empires care to support each other.

CONCORD may be far from perfect, but it binds us by treaty to a common end and a bulwark against chaos. It is why it should not be toyed with in this cavalier manner.


I don't argue your reluctance on expecting Matari aid when push comes to shove (personally if it were to happen I would probably deploy for the federation, not saying it would be a long deployment or much further reaching than Annages and that part of the Essence region but it would happen more than likely). What it seems your saying however is "We should not count on a bluff because its a bluff." Obviously that is true, but its not like there aren't strategists within the Republic or the State or wherever planning for what would be inevitable. The bluff is merely the worst case scenario. Plan for the worst, expect the best as they say. Even without the treaties in place, that doomsday scenario still very much so would apply. The treaty itself is just a little more reassurance it wont happen on a whim.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#25 - 2016-03-15 23:08:55 UTC
I am of the personal opinion that if any group is capable of bringing a level-headedness to the Inner Circle and CONCORD itself, it will be the Society. I find your claim that Mentor Matshi Raish 'assaulted' the late Empress an absurd one at best. Such hyperbolic statements will not further the truth.

And what better addition to the Inner Circle could you ask for than the Society itself? They have educated many great minds across the boundaries of the 4 divisive empires.

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Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#26 - 2016-03-16 06:27:47 UTC
This just seems like the creation of a distinction between the Jove that have a continued and vested interest in the rest of the cluster through the SOCT and companies such as Genolution, and the rest of their Empire that appear fine continuing their tradition of seclusion and relative non-involvement in the affairs of the rest of humanity.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#27 - 2016-03-16 13:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Since when does the Society of Conscious Thought count as a political body and national representative?

If the Jovian Directorate is withdrawing from CONCORD then the five-pointed star should become a four-pointed star. The Jove should not be allowed to just appoint someone to the Inner Circle. How many of the other governments have agreed to this?

Jovian influence on CONCORD has been allowed to fester for too long, and they are undeniably one of the biggest reasons for CONCORD's growing corruption and incompetence. They do nothing and have done nothing to involve themselves in or help to advance interstellar society.

This is an outrage. New Eden is not "your home", Raish. Go join your alien masters in drifter space. Jovian influence should be removed from CONCORD.

If this is to be the state of things, then I echo Lord Raholan's request and humbly ask of our next emperor to formally withdraw Amarr from CONCORD. That body has become a farce.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#28 - 2016-03-16 14:50:17 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:


Jovian influence on CONCORD has been allowed to fester for too long, and they are undeniably one of the biggest reasons for CONCORD's growing corruption and incompetence.


Undeniably, Ms. Kernher?

Please, do lay out your mountains of proof.

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Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#29 - 2016-03-16 19:03:40 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Since when does the Society of Conscious Thought count as a political body and national representative?

If the Jovian Directorate is withdrawing from CONCORD then the five-pointed star should become a four-pointed star. The Jove should not be allowed to just appoint someone to the Inner Circle. How many of the other governments have agreed to this?

Jovian influence on CONCORD has been allowed to fester for too long, and they are undeniably one of the biggest reasons for CONCORD's growing corruption and incompetence. They do nothing and have done nothing to involve themselves in or help to advance interstellar society.

This is an outrage. New Eden is not "your home", Raish. Go join your alien masters in drifter space. Jovian influence should be removed from CONCORD.

If this is to be the state of things, then I echo Lord Raholan's request and humbly ask of our next emperor to formally withdraw Amarr from CONCORD. That body has become a farce.


Okay, normally I'd agree on CONCORD being in serious need for reform and change, but these claims are sufficiently extraordinary to require extraordinary evidence to back them up. I know you take a lot on faith, kin, but this is less a leap of faith and more of a drunken tumble down mount dumbass.
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2016-03-18 01:39:37 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:


Jovian influence on CONCORD has been allowed to fester for too long, and they are undeniably one of the biggest reasons for CONCORD's growing corruption and incompetence.


Undeniably, Ms. Kernher?

Please, do lay out your mountains of proof.




History, my dear Ms. Priano.

As CONCORD moved away from being a meeting ground for diplomats and became a power in it's own right, was there any dissension from the Jove? Did they intervene to stop CONCORD from becoming what it is today? Did they argue when members of the Inner Circle stopped being nominated by the Empires and became a revolving door for CONCORD employees?

They are as complicit as any of the other governments in allowing CONCROD to grow unchecked over the past century.

I'll repeat Ms. Kernher's question, "Since when does the Society of Conscious Thought count as a political body and national representative?"

The Khanid Kingdom, Thukker Tribe, Intaki and Achura should have a much greater claim to a council seat. To say nothing of the non-aligned "criminal" organizations that exist in NullSec.

Giving the SoCT a seat in the Inner Circle makes about as much sense as putting Mordu's Legion in the Gallente Legislative Arm.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2016-03-18 04:18:47 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
I'll repeat Ms. Kernher's question, "Since when does the Society of Conscious Thought count as a political body and national representative?"

Apparently, since recently, at the very latest.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#32 - 2016-03-18 04:37:45 UTC
Indeed, we live in interesting times.
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