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Miners / Indy playground is getting bad for my opinion.

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Calvari Sertan
Think outside the BOX
#41 - 2016-03-11 01:45:31 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Calvari Sertan wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
- Offgrid boosts.


Rorqual has the ability to become invulnerable, and making all of your mining ships around it invulnerable. WTF. I want that on my carrier or dread please?


Can you give me any patch note link about this please? Been reading alot and haven´t seen that.


It's not in-game yet, it was talked about by CCP at last fanfest and on CSM. It's on the page 20 on the document I linked earlier :

Quote:
The topic of the Rorqual was brought up. CCP Fozzie showcased the new drone miners for the Rorqual. He also revealed that the Rorqual will likely get a new invulnerability button for itself and its fleet which locks them in place so that a defense fleet can get there to help


I´ve been on last 5 fanfests and what is said on fanfest is not always what is gonna happend.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2016-03-11 01:53:06 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
- Offgrid boosts.
This isnt a nerf to PvE/Miners only. this is hurting PVPers as well. From a PVP perspective, getting rid of offgrid boosts is killing one of the cooler emergent gameplay options: hunting and killing booster ships during a fight. Its now just going to be another primary on grid. zzzZzZZZz.

- Buddy List removal.
Also hurts PVPers. We can no longer monitor when titans come online and then rush to their last logoff location to bubble them. However, i think overall this is the right decision.

CCP has done nothing but assist and buff PvE player experience. Giving you guys impossible-to-catch ships. Even covert-ops mining frigates ffs. And you can freely travel nullsec with an interceptor or luxury yacht now too.

Rorqual has the ability to become invulnerable, and making all of your mining ships around it invulnerable. WTF. I want that on my carrier or dread please?

they buff concord every year

They got rid of can flipping/baiting/etc

they banished pvp'ers and highsec gankers to null/lowsec via Kill Rights system

You've never had it as good as you have it today. I dont know what youre complaining about.


Just one more nerf.
Calvari Sertan
Think outside the BOX
#43 - 2016-03-11 01:57:41 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Capsuleers are remote-controlled actually, so it makes sense in a way that we could intercept the signal between the operator and the capsuleer. Now it's like the signal is crypted and need agreement on both parts to be able to distinguish the signal from random noises.

To stay on topic, I would like some drone bonuses on the Mack and Hulk too, there's no reason they should be both squishy and defenseless, a 25% role bonus to damage and yield to drones would not be too much, maybe keep the 25% HP drone bonus to the Skiff, giving to mack and hulk a 75m3 drone bay could be something too.


I agreed, one extra HS for gun not lasers on all exchumers and maybe one medium slot for mack and haulk. Since all the pvpers agree that killing miners is fun. Then let´s balance the pvp side, between miners and pvper´s
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2016-03-11 04:25:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Calvari Sertan wrote:
I agreed, one extra HS for gun not lasers on all exchumers and maybe one medium slot for mack and haulk. Since all the pvpers agree that killing miners is fun. Then let´s balance the pvp side, between miners and pvper´s


No. If you haven't noticed yet - ships in eve are typically good for doing one thing. PvP ships can't mine well, and mining ships can't fight well. If you want to fight back, fly a ship made for fighting.

Some mining ships are already way too strong as PvP ships - look at the Skiff, Procurer and Venture. It's not a problem, as they are still not top of the line combat ships, but considering they are mining ships, they are pretty close. Put an additional turret slot on those, and I'd seriously consider flying them on a regular basis. (which would really be silly)
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2016-03-11 05:56:53 UTC
You can use a combination of Local and D-Scan to pretty much never get ganked. I'll accept warp speed inties getting lucky and covert ops/Recons guys getting you time to time. Why doesn't your corp defend you? If it's 1-2 ships those should be eagerly engaged by local standing fleets. If it's more people than that you need to watch your intel channel. Also minig got a boost, you can do Project Discovery during cycles and get an extra few Million ISK/Hr which you can't really do in other forms of active ISK generation.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#46 - 2016-03-11 06:01:52 UTC
lol

@lunettelulu7
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#47 - 2016-03-11 12:06:36 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
You can use a combination of Local and D-Scan to pretty much never get ganked. I'll accept warp speed inties getting lucky and covert ops/Recons guys getting you time to time. Why doesn't your corp defend you? If it's 1-2 ships those should be eagerly engaged by local standing fleets. If it's more people than that you need to watch your intel channel. Also minig got a boost, you can do Project Discovery during cycles and get an extra few Million ISK/Hr which you can't really do in other forms of active ISK generation.


It works to be reading actively intel and local, it avoids most of the trouble, there's only two problems about that :

24/7 campers in a cloaky bomber, you can mine in a proc/skiff with one of them but it forbids de facto all of bigger barges, which die too quickly to let people warp to you except 24/7 guards but these things only exist in dreams (Skiff with you will just warp away and not stand their guards against any threat, because hotdroppers everywhere).

Intel need to be active itself, if the guys are too slow a hotdropper prospect can jump like 2-3 systems before he can be seen on intel, barges are veeeeryyyy sloooow to warp away. (higgs anchor are a pain in the a** to use with randomely located anom).


And project discovery, after 5 scans it hurts my brain more than anything actually. Mining in itself in dangerous space is engaging enough to not let you time to do this anyway. And few M/hours ? You get like 50k per scan, that means you have to 20 of them to gain 1M at least.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#48 - 2016-03-15 05:46:05 UTC
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
this is an MMORPG, this is not suppose to be played solo.


There are a good amount of MMOs that are playable solo for the most part.
I don't know about you but I don't go gathering herbs in Tera with half my guild backing me up.


of course, Tera and EvE is different.

if Tera has an open world pvp then i bet your @ss you'll be needing your guild backing you up while gathering herbs. but alas, Tera is not like that, nobody can gank you, unlike here, hence this whiney thread.


Just Add Water
Jacques d'Orleans
#49 - 2016-03-15 07:04:15 UTC
Calvari Sertan wrote:

I think i´m done with eve for now, If I recall right, over the last 2,5 years starting in high and getting to null, as a ore miner. Never AFK mined, having 55" screen, all accounts open as visual. Whatching local, giving intel, DS links, lost one skiff and few barges, while learning how the eve live is. And the only changes i´ve seen following my skill training is bigger cargo hold on exhumers.

Sincerly Thank you ccp for the time.


So you lost a skiff and a few barges? Really?
Because after checking your zkillboard, all you've lost with that acc name is 1 Venture, 4 Pods, 1 Impairor and 3 Shuttles.

So the solution for your whine post is this:

1. Post with your main or STFU and GTFO.
2. HTFU you self entitled whiny brat.
3. Go play some of the many failed F2P WOW Clones out there!


Verdict: The usual forum whiner, not enough salt and tears. Wouldn't read again! 2/10


Breakfast is the most important drink of the day.
Rei nishana
DNS Requiem
#50 - 2016-03-15 15:46:12 UTC
Calvari Sertan wrote:
I´m curios.

Does anyone else then me, of all the miners and mining boosters in null or low, feel like CCP is changing the miners and mining boosters playground to give pvper´s more content.

Let me explain what i´m talking about.

1. Most of pvper´s really don´t give a **** about miners, whether they are in corp with them or not. And for me mining and building for last 2,5 years, I´ve never put trust in my corp mates or others to help me out if tackled.

2. The newest change, is the whatchlist. Now it´s just really hard to figure out if they are in belt when logging out. Why the heck, could CCP not at least give us like 2-3 min to warp out before they tackled us. As in delayed log in time, or module/movement lock down on them if pilots login back in space. Normal log in time in station or within shield. Because it´s just basicly weird that ccp is giving permission as part of the game play to use the log out and log in, as part of your game play. For me I would need to have toons in all systems around me to actually figure out if they had logged out in the mining system. Because intel from pvpers does really suck.

3. I´m looking forward to see how CCP will finally destroy the off grid rorqual boost.

4. I´m suspecting that the mining drone bug earlier in the year was a hint for the fighter drone yield. If that is the case, please just skip them. That yield for having the rorqual in the belt is just stupid.


Now there might be pvper´s that read this, say "jesus, this guy is whining" But I´m not seeing any mining/Indy content yet with all this changes. I´m not seeing any more med/low slots on barges/exchumers, I´m only seeing my self in barges again for less ganking loss and orca as boost. if that is the case i´m done with this game. It´s just stupit to spend money in a game that isn´t build for what i like to do. I know that if pvper´s are not finding any pvp content they start whining.

I hope this will bring other miners/indy to say what they feel about the game when they log in and read the patch notes and forums, where ccp is taking the indy part to. For me I really just think it´s stupid to pay real money to give pvpers content.

Sincerly Calvari

I am not a miner, to tell you the truth I would rather run laps around eve then mine but I do understand where you are coming at. Truthfully I do think there should be some new content for miners. The pvpers are getting a LOT with the last few updates from command destroyers to new caps. I do think that the miners should get some new content as well, maybe a t3 mining ship for example. maybe a t2 orca that has even better mining boosts, something good but truthfully I would like to see something better for the indy guys.
Another Posting Alt
Zerious Fricken Biziness
#51 - 2016-03-15 23:22:47 UTC
TLDR: Miner has no friends and wants CCP to protect him instead.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#52 - 2016-03-15 23:50:25 UTC
Ranik Sandaris wrote:
The hell did I just read?


A constantly reoccurring theme?

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
alindak Kahoudi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2016-03-16 01:20:34 UTC
Calvari Sertan wrote:
[quote=Kiddoomer]Well, I remember something that came from one of the recent CSM reunion : CPP want to introduce a smaller industrial command ship in the game. If this thing looks like a command destroyer, it could become the solution to the Rorqual put out of his security and other mining barges than the proc/skiff in low-null.

EDIT : there http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM10-S2.pdf page 34


I think i´m done with eve for now, If I recall right, over the last 2,5 years starting in high and getting to null, as a ore miner. Never AFK mined, having 55" screen, all accounts open as visual. Whatching local, giving intel, DS links, lost one skiff and few barges, while learning how the eve live is. And the only changes i´ve seen following my skill training is bigger cargo hold on exhumers.

Sincerly Thank you ccp for the time.[/quote

Are you for real? How many alts do you have? 2.5 yrs doing the same mining? Ebay much? You russian?
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#54 - 2016-03-16 01:36:39 UTC
Calvari Sertan wrote:
3. I´m looking forward to see how CCP will finally destroy the off grid Rorqual boost.


BATTLE RORQ BEST RORQ!

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2016-03-16 04:45:09 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
have you ever seen a bonus given to a mining ship to help him escape ? Even just a silly ecm bonus ? the skiff as you said can just die not that quickly, sure he can kill a bomber, a frigate or a destroyer just fine on its own, but whatever bigger and it's dead, plus, like 80% of the time, the hostile is actually a tackler or a hotdropper for a entire fleet, the reason why nearly no-one will come to help.


Well ....
There is the Endurance, with a mobility bonus when cloaked.
There is the Prospect with a covops cloak.
Then there's the Venture with +2 warpstab off the bat (and darned quick align times too).

in Haulers you have more of the same: +2 warpstab, covops cloak or even a jumpdrive for nigh-100% security.

in Barges there is the Higgs anchor which allows you to stay aligned and warp off at a moment's notice. (a moment's notice meaning: even before the 5 sec targeting delay on covops, and well before you see local spiking).

Oh and let's not forget my Procurer puts out 200 DPS, 480m/sec (AB), disruptor and web, 50k EHP. That's not bad for the price of a T1 Cruiser. Skiffs have even more EHP which is really all the bonus you can reasonably expect because if you don't want EHP you want to fly one of the mining frigates instead (faster GTFO potential).

As for Covetors/Mackinaws/Hulks/Retrievers, ..... I don't think the ship description says anything about getting away. If you insist on flying a high-yield or cargo capacity ship well that's your bonus right there. Would you like to know how well a T1 cruiser does in the mining department? Would you please show me the cruiser with a GTFO bonus while you're at it?

Thank You please come again. Lol
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#56 - 2016-03-16 09:29:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Rei nishana wrote:
I am not a miner, to tell you the truth I would rather run laps around eve then mine but I do understand where you are coming at. Truthfully I do think there should be some new content for miners.
There's plenty of content available to miners, they just don't want to be involved in it because most of it is produced by other players.

Quote:
The pvpers are getting a LOT with the last few updates from command destroyers to new caps. I do think that the miners should get some new content as well, maybe a t3 mining ship for example. maybe a t2 orca that has even better mining boosts, something good but truthfully I would like to see something better for the indy guys.
That's not content, that's tools.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#57 - 2016-03-16 15:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
have you ever seen a bonus given to a mining ship to help him escape ? Even just a silly ecm bonus ? the skiff as you said can just die not that quickly, sure he can kill a bomber, a frigate or a destroyer just fine on its own, but whatever bigger and it's dead, plus, like 80% of the time, the hostile is actually a tackler or a hotdropper for a entire fleet, the reason why nearly no-one will come to help.


Well ....
There is the Endurance, with a mobility bonus when cloaked.
There is the Prospect with a covops cloak.
Then there's the Venture with +2 warpstab off the bat (and darned quick align times too).

in Haulers you have more of the same: +2 warpstab, covops cloak or even a jumpdrive for nigh-100% security.

in Barges there is the Higgs anchor which allows you to stay aligned and warp off at a moment's notice. (a moment's notice meaning: even before the 5 sec targeting delay on covops, and well before you see local spiking).

Oh and let's not forget my Procurer puts out 200 DPS, 480m/sec (AB), disruptor and web, 50k EHP. That's not bad for the price of a T1 Cruiser. Skiffs have even more EHP which is really all the bonus you can reasonably expect because if you don't want EHP you want to fly one of the mining frigates instead (faster GTFO potential).

As for Covetors/Mackinaws/Hulks/Retrievers, ..... I don't think the ship description says anything about getting away. If you insist on flying a high-yield or cargo capacity ship well that's your bonus right there. Would you like to know how well a T1 cruiser does in the mining department? Would you please show me the cruiser with a GTFO bonus while you're at it?

Thank You please come again. Lol


Well first frigates are an entirely different things, they're all 3 of them meant to go in dangerous spaces, that's true all of them have great things to escape dangers, either cloak or +2 warp strength. But that's actually their purpose so working as intended. I didn't precised I was talking about the bigger ones.

For barges, 4 of them out of 6 are basically out of low null and wh without support. Proc and Skiff can tank, kill both npc and frigates/destroyers players and still mine, while all of the other just die, I dont mind the covetor/hulk having to rely on others to do anything but mine, but that makes the mack/retriever just a bad choice, they dont have and yield of the bigger variant, and either tank and dps of the smaller one, (orehold is a thing as much as big containers can be for the other barges). And in these dangerous space, beefy drones will not save from a lot of threats, will higgs anchor dont help at all for rats.

Content and tools are not the same, mining is exactly always the same thing everywhere it can be done, for pvp and other pve you have lot of choices of tools, for mining you either go mining frigate or barge or get out.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
violator2k5
Crescent Nova
#58 - 2016-03-16 22:09:45 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Well, just imagine that if CPP spend a good amount of time working on industry, or even "worse" mining, the size of the jita riot that will occur for useless work spend on useless people that just deserve to get gank for been stupid enough to do mining.


so you're basically saying the people who are mining to get minerals to either build or sell to builders to supply you with ships / ammo and modules so that you can have your daily pvp urge fulfilled, are useless.

i know this wont happen but lets say the miners stopped mining, the ship stocks dried up. you go out and wrack up another loss making your k/d ratio drop to 40 kills and 37 deaths (stats from zkillboard). you need a new ship......

what you gonna do, hop in a mining ship yourself to get the minerals to build one?
hope someone gives you one for free from their private stash.
post on the forum that ccp needs to add the sales of ships from their retrospective race npc stations.

I'm not a miner, done it before when i first started and didnt enjoy it but other people do and I would not call them useless because their play style doesnt match my own, especially when they are helping to supply the economy with items as previously mentioned.

Kiddoomer wrote:
Quote:
The topic of the Rorqual was brought up. CCP Fozzie showcased the new drone miners for the Rorqual. He also revealed that the Rorqual will likely get a new invulnerability button for itself and its fleet which locks them in place so that a defense fleet can get there to help


if it can run it while not in a fleet with miners that would be a nice bait ship to gain content with ;)
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#59 - 2016-03-16 22:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
It was more a sarcasm than anything, I've been mining since 2012 nearly all the time, everywhere but in wormholes (except like 30 min in a prospect). I dont have the number but by far the ship I've been the most into are the Mack then the Skiff.

But have you looked at the player suggestion channel and looked at the proposed ideas for miners/industrial ? There's a very few of them, more than half being non-doable because not well thought or downright silly. And just look at the post of other people, it's most of the time completely negative toward the first post., because "mining is stoopid for stoopid people". The only one idea that stayed through time is the mineable comet, and is like 4 years old or even more without a post from ccp, even if I remember the guy it originated from asking about his idea directly at ccp during a fanfest.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2016-03-17 07:45:54 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:

Well first frigates are an entirely different things, they're all 3 of them meant to go in dangerous spaces, that's true all of them have great things to escape dangers, either cloak or +2 warp strength. But that's actually their purpose so working as intended. I didn't precised I was talking about the bigger ones.

For barges, 4 of them out of 6 are basically out of low null and wh without support. Proc and Skiff can tank, kill both npc and frigates/destroyers players and still mine, while all of the other just die, I dont mind the covetor/hulk having to rely on others to do anything but mine, but that makes the mack/retriever just a bad choice, they dont have and yield of the bigger variant, and either tank and dps of the smaller one, (orehold is a thing as much as big containers can be for the other barges). And in these dangerous space, beefy drones will not save from a lot of threats, will higgs anchor dont help at all for rats.

Content and tools are not the same, mining is exactly always the same thing everywhere it can be done, for pvp and other pve you have lot of choices of tools, for mining you either go mining frigate or barge or get out.


So, am I reading correctly you'd prefer more variety? A hybrid like a combat-capable ship with mining bonuses and an appropriate ore hold (say, 3-4000 m3)? But here's the rub: if there were such a thing, would you fly it?

Isn't the same thing preventing you from flying a T2 Mining Frig also preventing you from flying anything else with worse ISK/hr than a Procurer? There is absolutely no law preventing you from mining less ore with better protection, except nobody's willing to cut into their ISK/hr. So I do not think those "combat miners" would be popular, nor would they grant increased protection against roaming blobs or hotdrops. In fact roaming and baitdropping are probably the only thing said vessels would be used for LOL

I'd like to hear exactly what you had in mind to improve/expand upon the current line of mining barges though, for I have wondered the same thing myself: Covetors and Retrievers are a little too similar for comfort. Perhaps make one a Great miner and the other significantly more capable of dealing with rats and small gangs... I don't know. Do elaborate on your proposition.