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Project Discovery and Button Mashers

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Author
Horiz Rin
Homebase69
#121 - 2016-03-12 14:25:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Horiz Rin
I just wanted to give my thoughts regarding the opinions that the results will be garbage and its just a click fest to get isk.


If your accuracy is below 50%, you get an image where the answer is already known. Get that wrong, you stay below 50%, and you get another known image. Obviously no scientists are going to bother looking at those. Button mash, and your accuracy is going to drop pretty fast, so not only will no one see your results, you'll also end up not getting any rewards.


Then there's the 'match the general consensus' players. I'm fairly sure that those images with a high consensus will be looked at by an experienced scientist. If he agrees, then yay, everyones accuracy goes up, if he disagrees, everyones score goes down. Those players just hitting the 'consensus' answers are, again, going to drop below 50% - it just takes longer.


Eventually - with the thousands of samples submitted every day - the images that 'rise to the top' are going to be those that have both a high consensus, and have been submitted by accurate participants. Win-win for the scientists :)


Also, if you're at 50% accuracy (an 'average' participant) you get 50,000isk per submitted image You have to submit 20 images getting at least half of those correct (to stay 'average') to earn 1m isk ......... no ones going to get rich on that.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#122 - 2016-03-12 22:45:11 UTC
Horiz Rin wrote:
I just wanted to give my thoughts regarding the opinions that the results will be garbage and its just a click fest to get isk.


If your accuracy is below 50%, you get an image where the answer is already known. Get that wrong, you stay below 50%, and you get another known image. Obviously no scientists are going to bother looking at those. Button mash, and your accuracy is going to drop pretty fast, so not only will no one see your results, you'll also end up not getting any rewards.


Then there's the 'match the general consensus' players. I'm fairly sure that those images with a high consensus will be looked at by an experienced scientist. If he agrees, then yay, everyones accuracy goes up, if he disagrees, everyones score goes down. Those players just hitting the 'consensus' answers are, again, going to drop below 50% - it just takes longer.


Eventually - with the thousands of samples submitted every day - the images that 'rise to the top' are going to be those that have both a high consensus, and have been submitted by accurate participants. Win-win for the scientists :)


Also, if you're at 50% accuracy (an 'average' participant) you get 50,000isk per submitted image You have to submit 20 images getting at least half of those correct (to stay 'average') to earn 1m isk ......... no ones going to get rich on that.


Ah, so that's how that works. Would be nice if that would be explained in-game. I was wondering why I never saw one of those "consensus"-images before. (Constantly below 50% since the beginning.)

Also, I'm slowly getting better, so right now I'm hovering at 38-39% instead of dropping further. P

Sometimes I still get confused by pictures where I'm reasonably sure there's something wrong with the "correct" answer, so I've started to make some screenshots. I'll probably upload them tomorrow and ask some questions about this.
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#123 - 2016-03-14 01:49:11 UTC
Has anyone else noticed that sometimes when you choose a selection and go to the screen that shows what the consensus has been, it'll change what you chose? I noticed this a few times and at first thought I'd screwed up and just miss-clicked, but I've since confirmed that it has happened. It seems to happen randomly so I don't have any before and after photos to prove it unfortunately, I may try to take some random screen pics to see if I can catch it. Basically the green check mark shows up in places other than what I'd selected, and not the selections I've made were checked.

Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this as well?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#124 - 2016-03-14 02:13:20 UTC
Owen wrote:


Ah, so that's how that works. Would be nice if that would be explained in-game. I was wondering why I never saw one of those "consensus"-images before. (Constantly below 50% since the beginning.)

Also, I'm slowly getting better, so right now I'm hovering at 38-39% instead of dropping further. P

Sometimes I still get confused by pictures where I'm reasonably sure there's something wrong with the "correct" answer, so I've started to make some screenshots. I'll probably upload them tomorrow and ask some questions about this.

That's not how it works as far as most of us have worked out. Consensus is sometimes done as soon as you press your submission. It's about reaching a certain number of submissions with a certain consistency. They then review the image once it's reached a second threshold. Or from what they said when an entire set of data has reached that second threshold.

However join the "project discovery" chat room where we share difficult images including with the hpa staff playing the game themselves.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2016-03-14 03:06:10 UTC
My only complaint with Project Discovery is that the program window stops loading pictures every two or three submissions.

Other than that, I rather enjoy seeing exactly how much of my University education I still remember.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#126 - 2016-03-14 07:32:02 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Owen wrote:


Ah, so that's how that works. Would be nice if that would be explained in-game. I was wondering why I never saw one of those "consensus"-images before. (Constantly below 50% since the beginning.)

Also, I'm slowly getting better, so right now I'm hovering at 38-39% instead of dropping further. P

Sometimes I still get confused by pictures where I'm reasonably sure there's something wrong with the "correct" answer, so I've started to make some screenshots. I'll probably upload them tomorrow and ask some questions about this.

That's not how it works as far as most of us have worked out. Consensus is sometimes done as soon as you press your submission. It's about reaching a certain number of submissions with a certain consistency. They then review the image once it's reached a second threshold. Or from what they said when an entire set of data has reached that second threshold.

However join the "project discovery" chat room where we share difficult images including with the hpa staff playing the game themselves.


more like the hpa staff trolling the chat room (while taking notes of high ranking players ;))

But good explanation otherwise! ^^
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#127 - 2016-03-14 07:33:25 UTC
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that sometimes when you choose a selection and go to the screen that shows what the consensus has been, it'll change what you chose? I noticed this a few times and at first thought I'd screwed up and just miss-clicked, but I've since confirmed that it has happened. It seems to happen randomly so I don't have any before and after photos to prove it unfortunately, I may try to take some random screen pics to see if I can catch it. Basically the green check mark shows up in places other than what I'd selected, and not the selections I've made were checked.

Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this as well?


It does happen, and from what I've heard, it's due to too many ppl playing/more than servers can handle. I honestly don't know what is saved as your answer though.
LigrayOu Kva
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#128 - 2016-03-14 22:38:08 UTC
Stop it. Enough.
button mashers won.
http://i.imgur.com/rfxGahh.png
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#129 - 2016-03-14 23:19:05 UTC
Up to 73.5% :)

Is it just me, or have the number of control slides increased? I had three out of something like 15 slides just now. That's not a big sample, but it was a little weird.

Sheeth Athonille wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that sometimes when you choose a selection and go to the screen that shows what the consensus has been, it'll change what you chose? I noticed this a few times and at first thought I'd screwed up and just miss-clicked, but I've since confirmed that it has happened.

It seems to show the selections you chose on the previous slide. My completely unfounded belief is that it's caused by the client timing out while it waits on the % results from PD.
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
#130 - 2016-03-15 10:19:00 UTC
beakerax wrote:
Up to 73.5% :)

Is it just me, or have the number of control slides increased? I had three out of something like 15 slides just now. That's not a big sample, but it was a little weird.

Sheeth Athonille wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that sometimes when you choose a selection and go to the screen that shows what the consensus has been, it'll change what you chose? I noticed this a few times and at first thought I'd screwed up and just miss-clicked, but I've since confirmed that it has happened.

It seems to show the selections you chose on the previous slide. My completely unfounded belief is that it's caused by the client timing out while it waits on the % results from PD.


Yes, this is exactly what is happening. We can't be sure if it affects the submission though.

We do need to get the server upgraded or a caching system in place. I suppose the HPA guys didn't expect the level of participation they received. Not a bad thing I guess ☺️
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#131 - 2016-03-15 10:58:20 UTC
CCP have said it submits whatever you had actually chosen, and that seems mostly consistent at least with practice.
And yes they changed the slide ratio
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
SL33PERS
#132 - 2016-03-15 11:32:59 UTC
It seems that the number of people doing this has dropped off sharply, I suddenly piled up several hundred unsolved cases. They were chugging along rather fast two days ago.
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#133 - 2016-03-15 11:40:08 UTC
Krevnos wrote:
beakerax wrote:
Up to 73.5% :)

Is it just me, or have the number of control slides increased? I had three out of something like 15 slides just now. That's not a big sample, but it was a little weird.

Sheeth Athonille wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that sometimes when you choose a selection and go to the screen that shows what the consensus has been, it'll change what you chose? I noticed this a few times and at first thought I'd screwed up and just miss-clicked, but I've since confirmed that it has happened.

It seems to show the selections you chose on the previous slide. My completely unfounded belief is that it's caused by the client timing out while it waits on the % results from PD.


Yes, this is exactly what is happening. We can't be sure if it affects the submission though.

We do need to get the server upgraded or a caching system in place. I suppose the HPA guys didn't expect the level of participation they received. Not a bad thing I guess ☺️


We're doing happy dance in the lab about the AMAZING number of people participating (of which the majority are doing their best) :)
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
#134 - 2016-03-15 15:54:02 UTC
HPA Illuminator wrote:


We're doing happy dance in the lab about the AMAZING number of people participating (of which the majority are doing their best) :)



We love them! They provide a very unique challenge since there is no algorithm or set answer. Our accuracy will improve over the coming weeks as be become more familiar with them. I'm glad to see more control slides popping up - they really help to hone our eyes.

I hope that we do you proud!
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2016-03-15 16:58:01 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:
I had feeling that something like this will happen. Lol


Wait, you actually get rewarded for getting it wrong? Please tell me no, because that would be insanely ********.

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Sp3ktr3
The Regency
The Monarchy
#136 - 2016-03-15 17:23:32 UTC
HPA Illuminator wrote:

We're doing happy dance in the lab about the AMAZING number of people participating (of which the majority are doing their best) :)


I'm glad you're seeing such a positive response. Is there any way to show off the badge that we earn for ranking up in the project?
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#137 - 2016-03-15 18:50:11 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Owen wrote:


Ah, so that's how that works. Would be nice if that would be explained in-game. I was wondering why I never saw one of those "consensus"-images before. (Constantly below 50% since the beginning.)

Also, I'm slowly getting better, so right now I'm hovering at 38-39% instead of dropping further. P

Sometimes I still get confused by pictures where I'm reasonably sure there's something wrong with the "correct" answer, so I've started to make some screenshots. I'll probably upload them tomorrow and ask some questions about this.


That's not how it works as far as most of us have worked out. Consensus is sometimes done as soon as you press your submission. It's about reaching a certain number of submissions with a certain consistency. They then review the image once it's reached a second threshold. Or from what they said when an entire set of data has reached that second threshold.

However join the "project discovery" chat room where we share difficult images including with the hpa staff playing the game themselves.


I never had one of those "Consensus"-pictures, so I guess constant failure isn't the kind of consistency the project wants.

But I'm OK with this now, my initial excitement has cooled down and I've moved on to other things. Right now I'm willing to do 1-2 cell probes every time I log into my industry-alt, but only because the mini-game is still fun, even without compensation.
PAPULA
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#138 - 2016-03-15 19:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: PAPULA
Today it's very bad, pictures don't load at all, sometimes i get a message it's not available.
Roll

Only Half Image is loaded Shocked

http://www.netsky.org/eve/OnlyHalf.png

Sad
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#139 - 2016-03-15 19:54:25 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
Today it's very bad, pictures don't load at all, sometimes i get a message it's not available.
Roll

Only Half Image is loaded Shocked

http://www.netsky.org/eve/OnlyHalf.png

Sad



Mark as abnormal and we'll take a look at it and remove it. It's not that it's not loading, the image is broken (someone stopped the microscope too soon).
Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#140 - 2016-03-15 20:50:28 UTC
Those people who have got an armour suit as a reward must have the patience of Job. I've given over about an hour a day since the launch and have only made it to 25k points! I'm going to be continuing, but much less time as I'm getting bored and frustrated. It's a good cause, but reminds me why I left a science career to start a business Smile

The increased number of control slides was much appreciated as useful feedback. I was pleased to see I got almost all right, which encouraged me at times of frustration.

I've given up on any rewards though, I'll just do it to support the project.

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.