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Broker fee will increase to 5% and transaction taxes to 2.5%

Author
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#61 - 2016-03-15 09:55:58 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Oh, you're viewing it in a broader scope rather than just market. Then yes. I agree.

Even if you only concern yourself with market functionality, without contracts you haven't got anything close to the full package.
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#62 - 2016-03-15 10:39:38 UTC
Weren't contracts supposed to be unavailable for medium citadels only? IE, citadels that can't have market anyway.
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#63 - 2016-03-15 10:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron Honk
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#64 - 2016-03-15 11:59:56 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Weren't contracts supposed to be unavailable for medium citadels only? IE, citadels that can't have market anyway.

Medium can't but Large and XL can have a market module, the contract feature will not work with the first release

source : http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM10-S2.pdf

Also, CREST will not work with citadels

I'm expecting to see contracts support for L and XL Citadels eventually, but I don't think I've seen a clear confirmation that M Citadels will get them. That's not to say it will not happen.
Aaril
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#65 - 2016-03-16 23:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaril
I am guessing I am space poor compared to most people here, and due to having a more casual schedule I like to trade in secondary hubs. I feel that this change will cause absolute carnage to my monthly income. I cannot see a Citadel taking over trade hubs, regardless of asset safety (hauling and relisting my orders sounds horrible).

Today, secondary trade hub players will sometime drive margins to smaller than Jita with many times less volume. These items are usually "ruined" for a while until some massive order comes through at an unpredictable date later. Based on this precedent, after these changes I have a feeling it will take months for the trading to adjust in these secondary hubs.

I am not sure why they don't see how the player's adjust to having Citadels, first, before they feel the need to introduce "sticks". I completely agree with Bad Bobby that feature parity needs to occur first.

I have no evidence to back this up, but I am guessing most trader's, like me, are fairly casual. Basically, I am not so entrenched in trading that I could possibly entertain the idea of doing Incursions on an alt instead (or setting up a bear hole, doing missions, etc). I would be taking my income from a pure sink to a faucet as part of this process.

If inflation is such a huge concern, it seems like they could lower the faucets through increased LP/items instead of liquid ISK.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#66 - 2016-03-17 00:11:44 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Weren't contracts supposed to be unavailable for medium citadels only? IE, citadels that can't have market anyway.

Medium can't but Large and XL can have a market module, the contract feature will not work with the first release

source : http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM10-S2.pdf

Also, CREST will not work with citadels

I'm expecting to see contracts support for L and XL Citadels eventually, but I don't think I've seen a clear confirmation that M Citadels will get them. That's not to say it will not happen.


Item exchange contracts are manageable to live without (CODE.'s gank fleet logistics manage this, we don't use item exchange contracts but instead delegate the handing out of ships via the trade window). Blueprints are the one big problem that remains.

It's courier contracts that are the bigger issue.

What happens to a courier contract when the target Citadel is blown up during the contract? What if the Citadel is unanchored and moved to another system (if possible)? What if it has its contract/market facilities uninstalled? What if the Citadel changes who can dock there?

I don't really see a solution here either.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#67 - 2016-03-17 00:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron Honk
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Weren't contracts supposed to be unavailable for medium citadels only? IE, citadels that can't have market anyway.

Medium can't but Large and XL can have a market module, the contract feature will not work with the first release

source : http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM10-S2.pdf

Also, CREST will not work with citadels

I'm expecting to see contracts support for L and XL Citadels eventually, but I don't think I've seen a clear confirmation that M Citadels will get them. That's not to say it will not happen.


Item exchange contracts are manageable to live without (CODE.'s gank fleet logistics manage this, we don't use item exchange contracts but instead delegate the handing out of ships via the trade window). Blueprints are the one big problem that remains.

It's courier contracts that are the bigger issue.

What happens to a courier contract when the target Citadel is blown up during the contract? What if the Citadel is unanchored and moved to another system (if possible)? What if it has its contract/market facilities uninstalled? What if the Citadel changes who can dock there?

I don't really see a solution here either.


I'm sure I've read somewhere that the un-anchoring of a citadel would take something like a week, I don't remember where

It will be a total mess anyway, I don't know how they are going to handle the fact that you can dock to some citadels but not some others, how will that works with couriers ? so many questions !
Cista2
EVE Museum
#68 - 2016-03-21 14:54:06 UTC
I am ruing that change :(
However, and slightly OT :
Black Desert Online - brokers fee is 35% lmao.

They really don't like traders in that game (or any other emergent gameplay - and still try to label those games sandboxes).

My channel: "Signatures" -

Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#69 - 2016-03-21 15:04:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron Honk
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#70 - 2016-03-22 16:47:11 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
Cista2 wrote:
I am ruing that change :(
However, and slightly OT :
Black Desert Online - brokers fee is 35% lmao.

They really don't like traders in that game (or any other emergent gameplay - and still try to label those games sandboxes).



Someone pointed that dungeon and dragon online have a 30% fee as well

I don't remember the trading gameplay being particularly deep in DDO.
General Muller
Pecunia Infinita
#71 - 2016-03-23 09:35:06 UTC
Guild Wars 2 has combined listing and selling fees of 15% and market trading is a very active form of gameplay.

Needless to say that there is a lot of market manipulation involved both from whales and ArenaNet themself.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#72 - 2016-03-24 23:52:07 UTC
How much monthly isk would it generate to the holding corp if 50% of the jita trade moved to a citadel?

Would trading in a citadel remove the need to have faction standings?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2016-03-25 05:41:19 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
How much monthly isk would it generate to the holding corp if 50% of the jita trade moved to a citadel?

Would trading in a citadel remove the need to have faction standings?


It depends on the broker's fee that the citadel owner sets. And that depends on competition from other citadels and even the potential for competition. Also, the prices themselves will likely change as well, most likely upwards...but the quantity purchased will also likely fall, so the net effect on citadel revenues would be ambiguous.

Might as well ask, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#74 - 2016-03-25 09:47:20 UTC
If quantity of purchases drops, wouldn't that drive prices down due to the available surplus of goods though?
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#75 - 2016-03-25 12:10:30 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
Cista2 wrote:
I am ruing that change :(
However, and slightly OT :
Black Desert Online - brokers fee is 35% lmao.

They really don't like traders in that game (or any other emergent gameplay - and still try to label those games sandboxes).



Someone pointed that dungeon and dragon online have a 30% fee as well



And that game had a barter economy when I used to play it. Small transactions used the auction house; large ones were done via its equivalent of our trade window.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#76 - 2016-03-25 15:51:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiloh Templeton
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
How much monthly isk would it generate to the holding corp if 50% of the jita trade moved to a citadel?

Would trading in a citadel remove the need to have faction standings?

According to the graph Hiver posted total Transaction tax for Feb was $10 Trillion. I don't know what percentage of that is Jita/Amarr, but the amount of income potential for the Citadel owner is incredible.

I imagine this will create press worthy battles initially as competing citadels are anchored in high-sec, but what happens if a group establishes citadel hegemony? The only available rebel action would be boycotts. If major powers are spending their time defending/attacking assets in high-sec, who's left in null?

Is CCP taking a big gamble on this one both from overwhelming advantage for the biggest group, and from player morale?

What are your predictions for the outcome?
Cista2
EVE Museum
#77 - 2016-03-25 17:37:02 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
what happens if a group establishes citadel hegemony?

What would they do, make taxes higher than Jita npc station? Hardly :)

My channel: "Signatures" -

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#78 - 2016-03-25 17:46:05 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
If quantity of purchases drops, wouldn't that drive prices down due to the available surplus of goods though?


No. Draw a supply and demand graph. Shift supply to the left, then demand. Do it several times, you should be able to draw graphs where the price goes up, stays the same or down.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2016-03-25 17:56:03 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
How much monthly isk would it generate to the holding corp if 50% of the jita trade moved to a citadel?

Would trading in a citadel remove the need to have faction standings?

According to the graph Hiver posted total Transaction tax for Feb was $10 Trillion. I don't know what percentage of that is Jita/Amarr, but the amount of income potential for the Citadel owner is incredible.

I imagine this will create press worthy battles initially as competing citadels are anchored in high-sec, but what happens if a group establishes citadel hegemony? The only available rebel action would be boycotts. If major powers are spending their time defending/attacking assets in high-sec, who's left in null?

Is CCP taking a big gamble on this one both from overwhelming advantage for the biggest group, and from player morale?

What are your predictions for the outcome?


Let me see, just playing with numbers here. 1% of 10 trillion is what?

How much ISK do the "major" powers earn off of things like moon-goo, POCO taxes, and so forth?

Can one group capture all of the HS trade?

Even if they did capture a large chunk would they raise prices? Might that not invite more competition and a new round of fights?

If such a "major" power is busy defending their HS income....wouldn't that leave some openings back home for an enemy to exploit?

These very same predictions were made for POCOs, that one group would take over a big chunk of them in HS and make tons of ISK and break the game, ruin the ecoonomy, etc.

Yet here we are.

Why is it there whenever there is a change to the economy the typical post is:

"You'll kill the game!"
"You just wrecked the economy!"
"You just handed [insert the villain du jour] an unbeateable advantage!!"

And yet....they never come to pass.

Do carry on with your predictions of doom and gloom...they eat it up on the forums just as they do in real life.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#80 - 2016-03-26 09:05:58 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
If quantity of purchases drops, wouldn't that drive prices down due to the available surplus of goods though?


No. Draw a supply and demand graph. Shift supply to the left, then demand. Do it several times, you should be able to draw graphs where the price goes up, stays the same or down.


Yeah, see, that's the thing. I'm thinking that supply won't shift. At least not immediately.