Market Discussions

Sure, we need to sink more ISK. But just because an idea leads to sinking ISK, doesn't make it a good idea.

There are many other ways of sinking ISK. But CCP aren't coming to the table with a list of new ISK sinks they are considering in order to improve the EVE economy. They are coming to the table with a raft of measures intended to make the new Citadels suck less when compared to existing NPC stations.

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this odd, but I never thought NPC stations were that great. They haven't really had much love in the 11+ years I've been playing. Just the odd cosmetic touch up and that one time they taunted us with the possibility of walking inside them. So how come a new feature that has been in the works for years is going to require tax incentives to be competitive with what we've already had for over a decade?

I really do think they should be looking at making Citadels better and taking the time and iterations needed to do so, rather than nerfing NPC stations that were already pretty dire to begin with.

They can justify tax changes at any time. EVE is a gaming product, not a country.

They're also not traditionally shy of putting out changes without giving any justification.

I think there is quite a bit of truth in here. They are indeed trying to get players to move away from what they have done for years and that will likely need both the carrot and the stick.

What maybe better for the game may not be seen as better from some sub-groups of players--e.g. station traders seem particularly displeased....then again losing that 0.2% broker's fee and facing something that could be up to an order of magnitude larger it is obvious to see why.

Historical example: Changes to things like tracking titan saw a bunch of butthurt from titan pilots. It was undoubtedly good for the game.

It may need the stick, but it doesn't have to be this stick.

Who exactly do you think will be incentivised to change behavior by a reduction in broker fee and transaction tax? Certainly not the majority of players, who will not give two ****** about it. This is an incentive for station operators who want to make an income from the market, not station customers.

Given this is a forum section filled with traders, where do you go to sell stuff? Where the customers are, or where the customers aren't? You will not move unless the customers move. The customers will not be incentivised by this tax.

Citadels do not have to have a tax advantage vs NPC stations, because if people aren't visiting the Citadel it's going to make **** all difference how low the broker fees are. People will not be going to a Citadel because of the market, at least not in most cases, they'll go for something else (if at all) and maybe do some shopping while they are there.

I don't think that example supports your cause.

CCP has ****** about on the sidelines for years and never actually fixed the issues with Titans (or capitals in general).

Anyone can waste time and money fixing things that aren't the problem.

It could be worse, you could be an industrialist.

Agreed. Citadels completely out-compete current methods of re-processing ore. (59% now for a citadel in high sec! It used to be 50% with 54% the max when operating in the depths of LS or NS). The truth is only a giant alliances will be able to keep a XL Citadel alive and running and so once again smaller scale traders are hit.

And then on top you have the broker fees for making market orders for the raw materials, and then broker fees again for selling the items. This will take a massive cut out of any manufacturing profits one would have received.

I expect they'll come along next and give citadels some insane ME bonus over anything else possible in the game, and thus completely kill the prospect of manufacturing successfully without signing over your soul to a big alliance who will allow you to use their citadel for a price.

I won't be surprised if citadels actually kill off a lot of the fun gameplay opportunities for the smaller entities by the time they are fully realised if this broker fee and reprocessing change is anything to go by.

(Edit - Scratch the point about reprocessing - it seems CCP has seen sense and has suggested new reprocessing bands other than what is described in the devblog. The other points still remain though)

Another side of this that I'm not keen on is CCP nerfing NPC stations before a suitable replacement is in place. That is what they did with POS, right before they left us twisting in the wind for 18 months and counting.

CCP has a terrible record for iterating on economy features.

Which is my point.

Citadels will not be a replacement for NPC stations (or POSes) in April. They will not reach parity in functionality until CCP has made further iterations on them. In the interim, we'll be stuck with nerfed NPC stations, nerfed POSes and partially implemented Citadels.

I'd much rather they released Citadels, iterated on them until they are in a good state and only then started removing/devaluing the alternatives.