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What happened with war decs?
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Thorian Baalnorn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2016-03-14 14:10:03 UTC
The wardec system has been abused for some time. Years ago people that actually wardecced would dec 1-3 targets for a bit then dec more targets. It has progressed to the state before this change of a relatively small alliance or corp wardeccing half of eve and sitting in trade and mission hubs waiting for unsuspecting targets to appear. If the target(s) were to big of a threat The deccers did the same thing they complain about their targets doing ...docking up as soon as there was a threat to them losing their ship.

This has progressed to ridiculous amounts of wannabe pvpers looking for easy targets in highsec and hiding when a real fight presents itself. If you want to pvp then stop picking on traders, mission runners, indys, and naive people of big alliances shopping and by all means roam through lowsec and null. Plenty of people to pvp with. And unlike those highsec carebears, you will find those in null will undock to pvp.

Oh wait, you dont want a target that can fight back... nevermind.... carry on. I am enjoying the wardeccer tears.

Sometimes you are the squirrel and sometimes you are the nut. Today, you are the nut and the squirrel is hungry.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#62 - 2016-03-14 14:11:33 UTC
Payne Dakara wrote:
pirates don't like to fight they want an easy kill so if you try to fight them they just dock.


I love this myth, because it leads to people bringing a fleet after me from time to time.

Payne Dakara wrote:
Add war deck corp with red standing and watch local, don't mine AFK and if you see them dock.


This always baffles me. Why? They're already wartargets. They'll show up in local with the WT tag.

Payne Dakara wrote:
Watch opposing corp kill board and see if they are close to where you are, if you have standing use locator agents for same purpose.


This is pretty good advice, though delays in API refresh mean the intel can be old enough that they're already on you by the time you realize they killed something five jumps away.

I have a long list of things a corp could do to irritate us. I could make a war an utterly miserable experience for an active hunter. The trade hub/route campers wouldn't care. Without the watch list, they're pretty much all that's left.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Wanda Fayne
#63 - 2016-03-14 14:12:00 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

Show us on the doll where the bad man touched you.
.


I cringe whenever I see this, I work with kids.Ugh

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#64 - 2016-03-14 14:12:50 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Giaus Felix wrote:

Payne Dakara wrote:
If you wanted fights you will go low or null and will not even care to open war against high sec care bear corp since war only matters in high sec.
lol this old chestnut; hisec is just as much a PvP area as lowsec, nullsec and whspace. In fact it's probably even more so because it's A: where 70% of the targets are, B: where the majority of the money is made and C: where 90% of the nullsec supply lines begin.


What I don't get is why aren't you all deccing other war deccers all the time. You'd keep getting fights after fights since you keep saying you do it to get fights. I'm entirely willing to accept the notion you currently dec left, right and center in the hope of getting a fight at some point through sheer number of potential targets but why don't you also go with arguably safe bets?

We often do, last two wars with pirat were actually really engaging and tense,
Marmite have been under siege for months from other outfits
problem is only some of us actually manage to operate effectively under genuine threat and the ones that don't blue up to each other ,
There also the issue that about half the merc scene are hub humping degenerates
and the other active-flying-about half couldn't be ****ed station gaming of a hub undock because :**** station games:

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#65 - 2016-03-14 14:13:54 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Well, the entity that declares the war spends some money to create the war dec. Would only be fair for the other party to be able to pay the wardec fee (to the NPCs) to abort the war dec, don't you think?

Would also be just about the biggest ISK sink... pay for safety.

To avoid the "it's on, no it's not, it's on, no it's not" spam, CCP should change it so the entity that declares war has the option to pay the base fee + whatever extra amount they want, with the defenders having to match the total to cancel the wardec.

Even bigger ISK sink.

"Let's make it so the richest people in the game decide how the game gets played"

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#66 - 2016-03-14 14:17:55 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Actually something like locators no longer working on offline players would probably be enough.

That's a lot of tedious copy/paste.

If the locator could tell me which of my contacts was online and then let me choose the one I want to locate, they'd be a lot more useful. You'd have to hit refresh on a locator every time you wanted to update online status. I'd be okay with that.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#67 - 2016-03-14 14:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Skarner Kondur wrote:
The issue clearly was that CCP didn't hit them hard enough with the correct solution. Again as I've said above, 2 million or 50 million, the point is that it's a joke of a cost. One player can easily sustain that, barely playing at all. Not to mention running missions and profiting from war which easily pays for itself.

Nothing you said really counters the fact that increasing the cost of war declaration is a viable solution. Going by the logic of "they'll band together to mitigate costs" is faulty; until what point can they merge? When the entire player base is one corp?

Making wardecs a rich kids' game just means that we'll all pile into alliances under the rich kids and instead of just me wardeccing you, I'll be coming with the full force of an alliance at my back.

You sure you want that?

edit: Also, it's important to point out that not everyone dropping wardecs are hardcore mercenaries. I've actively encouraged and advised several small industrial corps who used warfare to strengthen their positions. Eve needs more of those wars.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#68 - 2016-03-14 14:24:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Actually something like locators no longer working on offline players would probably be enough.

That's a lot of tedious copy/paste.

If the locator could tell me which of my contacts was online and then let me choose the one I want to locate, they'd be a lot more useful. You'd have to hit refresh on a locator every time you wanted to update online status. I'd be okay with that.

Still better than chasing ghosts,
point being though its both :effort: , not free or instant and actually gives more safety to you when your offline,
with this I would have to see where you log to know where you are but wouldn't have to waste half my night just to find someone not playing eve at all.

It's the bear minimum to diffuse the situation and actually quite a compromise on our part.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#69 - 2016-03-14 14:27:13 UTC
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:
by all means roam through lowsec and null. Plenty of people to pvp with. And unlike those highsec carebears, you will find those in null will undock to pvp.


The last null roam I went on, five of us camped an Archon into a station until he could call in 20 people for backup.

Don't give me this "there's space bushido in null" line. They're just as risk averse out there as the average highsec player.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#70 - 2016-03-14 14:30:44 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

Show us on the doll where the bad man touched you.
.


I cringe whenever I see this, I work with kids.Ugh

For what it's worth, I have my own experiences that hardened me against such humor. Still, apologies if it hit too close to home.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#71 - 2016-03-14 14:31:41 UTC
A half dozen static targets spread all over Empire space that the defender gets the warp to/bookmark locations too. Once engaged by the defender the notification goes out to the attacking corp/alliance and a bookmark is given to ALL aggressing members. You can defend your war dec or as soon as the defending objective is destroyed half the war dec fee goes into the defenders wallet and the wardec drops immediately.


Half dozen is enough targets and separating them all over high sec space makes it that you either choose what to defend, defend them all with smaller numbers or let it drop. Constellation wide, like entosis, is too easy to defend by a centralized enemy, even region is too close to rapid force respond.

A corp that decs a lot will and can be guerrilla warfared by quite a few corps that are smart and DESIRE to defend. The isk gain will again appeal to pvers. Youre now just doing a "mission" to end your war dec.

By allowing the defenders to know the location BEFORE the attackers means they gain the advantage of defending. Timer style notifications means that the attacker now knows there are active targets in space and their exact location that are actively trying to stop the war dec. Who wins? You decide!!

Off the top of my drunk head.... You all FLAME AWAY!!Twisted

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#72 - 2016-03-14 14:34:41 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Actually something like locators no longer working on offline players would probably be enough.

That's a lot of tedious copy/paste.

If the locator could tell me which of my contacts was online and then let me choose the one I want to locate, they'd be a lot more useful. You'd have to hit refresh on a locator every time you wanted to update online status. I'd be okay with that.

Still better than chasing ghosts,
point being though its both :effort: , not free or instant and actually gives more safety to you when your offline,
with this I would have to see where you log to know where you are but wouldn't have to waste half my night just to find someone not playing eve at all.

It's the bear minimum to diffuse the situation and actually quite a compromise on our part.


I do like the idea of locators being able to tell you the online status of multiple players, especially if it can be done off your contact list so you can find online players to run locates on. It removes the instant intel aspect of the watch list but keeps us doing what we do.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#73 - 2016-03-14 14:37:24 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
A half dozen static targets spread all over Empire space that the defender gets the warp to/bookmark locations too. Once engaged by the defender the notification goes out to the attacking corp/alliance and a bookmark is given to ALL aggressing members. You can defend your war dec or as soon as the defending objective is destroyed half the war dec fee goes into the defenders wallet and the wardec drops immediately.


Half dozen is enough targets and separating them all over high sec space makes it that you either choose what to defend, defend them all with smaller numbers or let it drop. Constellation wide, like entosis, is too easy to defend by a centralized enemy, even region is too close to rapid force respond.

A corp that decs a lot will and can be guerrilla warfared by quite a few corps that are smart and DESIRE to defend. The isk gain will again appeal to pvers. Youre now just doing a "mission" to end your war dec.

By allowing the defenders to know the location BEFORE the attackers means they gain the advantage of defending. Timer style notifications means that the attacker now knows there are active targets in space and their exact location that are actively trying to stop the war dec. Who wins? You decide!!

Off the top of my drunk head.... You all FLAME AWAY!!Twisted

As has been said, the current state of the corporate system allows defenders to opt out of the war entirely. This is just handing them another tool for dictating terms while the aggressors only have "shoot what you can get on grid with".

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2016-03-14 14:54:33 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

problem is only some of us actually manage to operate effectively under genuine threat and the ones that don't blue up to each other ,


I think this has a lot of meaning into it. The pressure group like yours can put on others is showing to be too much even for some used to applying that pressure to others. It's probably a reason why wardecs will never really get "buffed" directly.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#75 - 2016-03-14 14:59:12 UTC
"Our King wants to know if it is true that your King is at war"
"Yes, he is. Our whole nation is at war with Germany"
"And how many warriors does your King have?"
"Hundreds of thousands. But the German kaiser also haves hundreds of thousands of soldiers"
"Really? And they are killing each other?"
"Yes"
"Then your King must be a very rich man, if he can pay two cows to the family of each German warrior killed by his warriors..."

Do you know what would fix wardecs once and forever? If aggressors had to pay back the losses inflicted on targets. Twisted
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#76 - 2016-03-14 15:04:19 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Skarner Kondur wrote:
The issue clearly was that CCP didn't hit them hard enough with the correct solution. Again as I've said above, 2 million or 50 million, the point is that it's a joke of a cost. One player can easily sustain that, barely playing at all. Not to mention running missions and profiting from war which easily pays for itself.

Nothing you said really counters the fact that increasing the cost of war declaration is a viable solution. Going by the logic of "they'll band together to mitigate costs" is faulty; until what point can they merge? When the entire player base is one corp?

Making wardecs a rich kids' game just means that we'll all pile into alliances under the rich kids and instead of just me wardeccing you, I'll be coming with the full force of an alliance at my back.

You sure you want that?

edit: Also, it's important to point out that not everyone dropping wardecs are hardcore mercenaries. I've actively encouraged and advised several small industrial corps who used warfare to strengthen their positions. Eve needs more of those wars.


Why does any mercenary corp / alliance need to have 200 active wardecs? The only possible reason for having so many is so you can sit in a trade hub and shoot passing carebears.

Focused activities that you want to do without concord getting involved can still be done, you just can't have every corp in eve wardecced at the same time. Having price scale with number of active wars would fix a lot of the "problems" people have with wars without ruining them for people who enjoy hunting in HS.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#77 - 2016-03-14 15:22:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
What I don't get is why aren't you all deccing other war deccers all the time.
The blue doughnut is a lie, it's a blue circle.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#78 - 2016-03-14 15:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
"Our King wants to know if it is true that your King is at war"
"Yes, he is. Our whole nation is at war with Germany"
"And how many warriors does your King have?"
"Hundreds of thousands. But the German kaiser also haves hundreds of thousands of soldiers"
"Really? And they are killing each other?"
"Yes"
"Then your King must be a very rich man, if he can pay two cows to the family of each German warrior killed by his warriors..."

Do you know what would fix wardecs once and forever? If aggressors had to pay back the losses inflicted on targets. Twisted
War reparations? You've had worse ideas, and that's saying something Roll

Historically the winners of a war don't pay reparations, the losers do; in which case people such as yourself would have to pay wardeccing corps, who invariably win such contests because they actually know what they're doing, any costs incurred in making your spaceships explode. I can certainly get behind such a mechanic if it's employed in a realistic way.

Mr Mieyli wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Skarner Kondur wrote:
The issue clearly was that CCP didn't hit them hard enough with the correct solution. Again as I've said above, 2 million or 50 million, the point is that it's a joke of a cost. One player can easily sustain that, barely playing at all. Not to mention running missions and profiting from war which easily pays for itself.

Nothing you said really counters the fact that increasing the cost of war declaration is a viable solution. Going by the logic of "they'll band together to mitigate costs" is faulty; until what point can they merge? When the entire player base is one corp?

Making wardecs a rich kids' game just means that we'll all pile into alliances under the rich kids and instead of just me wardeccing you, I'll be coming with the full force of an alliance at my back.

You sure you want that?

edit: Also, it's important to point out that not everyone dropping wardecs are hardcore mercenaries. I've actively encouraged and advised several small industrial corps who used warfare to strengthen their positions. Eve needs more of those wars.


Why does any mercenary corp / alliance need to have 200 active wardecs? The only possible reason for having so many is so you can sit in a trade hub and shoot passing carebears.
There are other reasons, one of which is that it's trivially easy to evade a wardec. They have multiple wardecs so that they have things to shoot out regardless of whether or not the majority of the wars that they pay for are evaded.

Quote:
Focused activities that you want to do without concord getting involved can still be done, you just can't have every corp in eve wardecced at the same time. Having price scale with number of active wars would fix a lot of the "problems" people have with wars without ruining them for people who enjoy hunting in HS.
Until wardec evasion costs the same as declaring war they should be able to have as many wardecs as they can pay for.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Max Fubarticus
Raging Main
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#79 - 2016-03-14 15:41:22 UTC
Ibutho Inkosi wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
everything.
Over-simplification is one thing, but reducing all this to THIS? Please. I'm no Einstein here, but do give me a BREAK.

The rise in war decs has to do with deccing, then blackmailing small, starting out corps who are attempting a shot at the meta game, but being cut down and sent to the showers by bored, juvenile players who just can't be bothered to play the deeper game offered by EVE's design. Face it. Hanging around in high, reading rosters of corps for that magic set of numbers [three members founded four days ago] isn't exactly what I'd call EMERGENT GAME PLAY - and if you call it CONTENT CREATION, I hope your career with Mickey D's works out. (The content of that cheeseburger is as easy
to apply.)

The powers that be, for good or ill, have decided to sanction one so-called style of gameplay, and offer lip service to all the others. If you want to pretend this hasn't happened ('cause you happen to be one of those getting their yuks out of this) then go ahead, and be sure to lie about it all in this forum. But, when you do, at least put some effort into inventing one that's relatively BELIEVABLE, and somewhat PLAUSIBLE.

Our collective intelligence has been insulted enough of late.


There are elements of truth to this. Personally, I think WD's are hilarious. It's like going to the Chimp exhibit at your local zoo and watching the chimps scratch their butt, and then eat a banana with the very same hand. At first you find the act disgusting, but then realize they can't help themselves. High sec WD's are much the same. Our Corp / Alliance has been perma-dec'd for what seems like forever. The funny thing is, nobody gives a rats ***. Why? We live in null. It takes too much time and effort to plan a "real" war. I don't blame them one Iota.

Why do that when you can system / station camp and kill the moron who didn't get the memo ( TLDR types ). And then thump your chest and swap tales with your corpies of how you "went for the kill". I have never lost a single isk to the WD industry. Yet they have expended hundreds, upon hundreds of millions in isk to enjoy their style of game-play. And I encourage them to continue. For the greater part, the players who make the loudest noise about WD's are those engaged in it.

Suggestions such as: "make the defenders pay for a portion of the WD" speaks volumes about the infantile mentality some of these players possess.What happened to the "risk vs reward" refrain we keep hearing? You risk you isk, your ship, pod. The defenders risk the same or more. So what needs changing? Maybe a little better business plan:)
Anyway, this WD junk really belongs in C&P. So keep the WD's coming and keep feeding that isk sinkBig smile

Hugs ( the one mommy and daddy never gave you )

Max

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2016-03-14 15:48:41 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
War reparations? You've had worse ideas, and that's saying something Roll

Historically the winners of a war don't pay reparations, the losers do; in which case people such as yourself would have to pay wardeccing corps, who invariably win such contests because they actually know what they're doing, any costs incurred in making your spaceships explode. I can certainly get behind such a mechanic if it's employed in a realistic way.



Well most reparation were paid by the loser after initiating the war. A nation getting invaded and outright losing probably won't pay just like the bad corp getting roflstomped would not pay.