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Project Discovery - Blind Players?
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Skarner Kondur
Order of The Forge
#1 - 2016-03-11 19:00:49 UTC
I was going to link some seriously concerning screenshots. Unfortunately, I realized after about a dozen screenshots that EVE Online isn't captured using the print screen button; all the windows behind it are.

The community consensus on Project Discovery often demonstrates that there are two groups of negative influence on the new feature: players who need to do more training, and players who seemingly can't even see the sample. The most concerning part about this is that they seem to make up a huge portion of participants. As someone who is personally familiar with examining samples like these, I understand why some may be challenging. However, the magnitude of inaccuracy that some of the consensus has is ridiculous.

Examples:
- Samples that have no green stains being marked as anything other than lack of green staining
- Different cytoskeletons being mixed up
- Microtubules not being picked even though it explicitly refers to the unique perfect yellow colour
- Cytoplasm being confused with vesicles
- Cell to cell variations being completely overlooked

Those are just a few of the worst examples, out of the many that I witnessed.
Poddington Bare
Black Mount Industrial
Breakpoint.
#2 - 2016-03-11 19:23:36 UTC
You know...it's almost like people are just spammin' the butan to receive bacon...
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#3 - 2016-03-11 19:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Yep, the barrier to entry to project Discover is WAY too low, people should have to really want to participate (and show some aptitude) to gain access.

The whole "get rewards for falling" thing is , imo, beyond stupid (smacks of 'millennial' thinking if you ask me). It's like the developers never met an EVE Online player before...
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#4 - 2016-03-11 19:58:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
this is why they have a community consensus and then why they have people to doube check once there is a consensus. in theory this will eventually weed out bad samples

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Ibutho Inkosi
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-03-11 20:23:26 UTC
Maybe subsidize me for not doing it? Color blind people might have trouble with something as specific as this seems to be. There are tests for that. I think they're studying your behavior anyway, and not protoplasma. They're doing the Pavlovian thing to you. They'd have to pay me real money to experiment on me!

Big smile

As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#6 - 2016-03-11 20:28:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Yep, the barrier to entry to project Discover is WAY too low, people should have to really want to participate (and show some aptitude) to gain access.

The whole "get rewards for falling" thing is , imo, beyond stupid (smacks of 'millennial' thinking if you ask me). It's like the developers never met an EVE Online player before...



Confirming millennials reward mediocrity.

I haven't been able to log in and try this, I will not say I'm a genius....but I am a bit of an intellectual, and I can see from feedback this will be an exercise in frustration.
Memphis Baas
#7 - 2016-03-11 23:02:54 UTC
Why would they be frustrated?

Maybe they're just using us to reduce their 150,000+ sample size down to something more manageable, by having us monkeys eliminate the easy-to-guess samples through luck or random clicking or whatever.

They can easily remove all the percentages and send the samples back to us again, for a second round of guessing, see if we reach the same consensus as before.

They can also change the game to "do you agree with this consensus", sending us the samples where we can see the chosen percentages and just x out what we think is not correct. They can have the high accuracy people verify or correct the crowd choices.

Basically, there are statistical manipulations that they can apply to the results; don't assume it's "one choice and that's final".


Also, they certainly haven't thrown a lot of money or hardware at it, if their server is overwhelmed at 1000 hits / minute serving 800x600 jpegs (it's probably just a basic cable internet / 5 meg connection and a basic server). Low cost, low expectations, no frustrations.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#8 - 2016-03-11 23:08:55 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why would they be frustrated?

Maybe they're just using us to reduce their 150,000+ sample size down to something more manageable, by having us monkeys eliminate the easy-to-guess samples through luck or random clicking or whatever.

They can easily remove all the percentages and send the samples back to us again, for a second round of guessing, see if we reach the same consensus as before.

They can also change the game to "do you agree with this consensus", sending us the samples where we can see the chosen percentages and just x out what we think is not correct. They can have the high accuracy people verify or correct the crowd choices.

Basically, there are statistical manipulations that they can apply to the results; don't assume it's "one choice and that's final".


Also, they certainly haven't thrown a lot of money or hardware at it, if their server is overwhelmed at 1000 hits / minute serving 800x600 jpegs (it's probably just a basic cable internet / 5 meg connection and a basic server). Low cost, low expectations, no frustrations.


Frustration in the fact that if something is percieved to be correct but then you are told its wrong.

No matter what argument is you give, im pretty confident that this is being treated like the hacking mini game....and just mashing buttons till the treat comes out.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-03-11 23:31:52 UTC
pushdogg wrote:

Confirming millennials reward mediocrity.

I haven't been able to log in and try this, I will not say I'm a genius....but I am a bit of an intellectual, and I can see from feedback this will be an exercise in frustration.


The so-called millennial attitude was created by a drive to reward effort of any kind at the expense of pure competetive dominance. Yeah it's gone a bit far in some areas but competitive people obsessed with dominance and elitism don't often get jobs as teachers of the young do they?
Human societies enforce mediocrity.
Oh, you haven't tried this...and you say you're an intellectual?
Damn son.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#10 - 2016-03-12 01:35:30 UTC
If they find that the results are useless they will change the game until it works. We should not forget that this is pretty new ground here and they will have to figure out how tho do this first and this is part of that process.

Evil RatKid
gfldex
#11 - 2016-03-12 02:53:59 UTC
The EVE Online player base is presented with a system that can be gamed. What do you think is bound to happen?

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#12 - 2016-03-12 03:36:41 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
pushdogg wrote:

Confirming millennials reward mediocrity.

I haven't been able to log in and try this, I will not say I'm a genius....but I am a bit of an intellectual, and I can see from feedback this will be an exercise in frustration.


The so-called millennial attitude was created by a drive to reward effort of any kind at the expense of pure competetive dominance. Yeah it's gone a bit far in some areas but competitive people obsessed with dominance and elitism don't often get jobs as teachers of the young do they?
Human societies enforce mediocrity.
Oh, you haven't tried this...and you say you're an intellectual?
Damn son.





Since we have a small viewpoint discrepancy I will bite. Teachers of the young have had to be so PC that children of today(read: millennials) are coddled rather than rules and strong moral viewpoints being enforced. Parents in a litigation happy society also help push this coddling to new heights.

Hence any sort of elitism is left to the parents, who really are too busy with their own crap to even care what their kids are doing.

I don't have to play the game to make an educated assumption based on the feedback of the "intellectuals" of our community.

There....mini game is a treat button driven by mediocrity. And backed up with a strong opinion loosely based in the 20th century.

Son.
Drossk Kalkoken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-03-12 05:05:28 UTC
IRL biologist checking in:

My accuracy is hovering around 62% because ~35% of the time the "community consensus" is WRONG.

This has nothing to do with the oft-maligned millennials. You're essentially paying people who had 15 minutes of training to do a task that requires a bachelor's degree to really be done properly. The players are taking the money and running. Humans are opportunists by nature and if you give them a reward for doing practically nothing, they are going to take it.
Galaxxis
The Regency
The Monarchy
#14 - 2016-03-13 04:54:44 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
If they find that the results are useless they will change the game until it works. We should not forget that this is pretty new ground here and they will have to figure out how tho do this first and this is part of that process.


This isn't really "new ground", citizen science like this has been around for years.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-03-13 05:03:27 UTC
Galaxxis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
If they find that the results are useless they will change the game until it works. We should not forget that this is pretty new ground here and they will have to figure out how tho do this first and this is part of that process.


This isn't really "new ground", citizen science like this has been around for years.


citizen science that pays in internet spaceship money is new ground.
Galaxxis
The Regency
The Monarchy
#16 - 2016-03-13 05:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Galaxxis
Gilbaron wrote:
Galaxxis wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
If they find that the results are useless they will change the game until it works. We should not forget that this is pretty new ground here and they will have to figure out how tho do this first and this is part of that process.


This isn't really "new ground", citizen science like this has been around for years.


citizen science that pays in internet spaceship money is new ground.


Yes. Also, http://i.imgur.com/SmWKRPc.jpg yes people seem to be completely blind. There were other ones with clear double dots! Oh and cytoplasm. Right.

Oh and I'd just like to point out that people do seem to be getting better overall. Keep practicing guys! Just look a little closer before you hit submit.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#17 - 2016-03-13 10:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Linus Gorp
I will just leave this here..

http://i.imgur.com/YlPYgUt.png
http://i.imgur.com/s9pFyfR.png
http://puu.sh/nEQUA/3ecc27db52.jpg

Ruthlessly stolen from the "Project Discovery" in-game channel.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Akie Sonare
My Little Pony Industries Inc.
Parallaxis Alliance
#18 - 2016-03-13 11:13:12 UTC
Project Discovery in a nutshell
http://puu.sh/nETk6/e69810b597.png
Cautious Kev
Doomheim
#19 - 2016-03-13 11:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cautious Kev
.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#20 - 2016-03-13 11:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Linus Gorp wrote:
http://puu.sh/nEQUA/3ecc27db52.jpg

Thats nothing. I have seen that more and more percentage is for cytoplasm even when there is none in the sample. Evil

If this will be rising, They will restart the project, forget the whole clasification effort, and wil have to use repetitive pattern recognition to push those player rigging the system to a few samples that they will always classify again and again, with the pattern they always select. They will also have to receive a 1 AK for each classification, to reflect their contribution.

In fact they should forget all the classifications made from the point of sudden rise in those rigged classifications. I think it started from yesterday.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
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